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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

bloomberg.com

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#121

Post by TDL »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #108
jandrewrogers wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some extent, this is a choice many Americans intentionally make. There are many jobs that offer European-like benefits, working hours, and employment stability in the US (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable -- it is not a first choice for many people if circumstances offer something better. The tradeoffs tend to be similar to Europe if you take one of the…

> (e.g. Federal government jobs and some companies) but these are frequently viewed as undesirable Federal and government (city, state etc.) jobs (perhaps excluding IT) are some of the most desirable jobs in US, with long waiting lines. Got try get a city job in NYC....

Are you going to back up any of your claims?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#122

Post by vidarh »

walshemj wrote: post #27
gervase wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the parent is actually referring to pre-tax salaries; the baselines are much lower (last I checked) in the EU relative to the US.

A senior ie 10 years experience in London is unlikely to make more than $70k which is about half what the starting salary is for google in the valley

There are plenty of senior dev jobs in London that pay far more than that. I passed that level in London 15 years ago. At that time I had about 6 years experience.

It depends much more on niche, how well your market yourself, and what type of companies you work for.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#123

Post by pc86 »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #103
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

[Citation needed]

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#124

Post by wmeredith »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #103
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

Source?

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#125

Post by drcross »

aianus wrote: post #104
tirant wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you can still do that in Europe, no one is stopping you from working more. And even better, as you have more free time, you can use it for your own projects.

Nobody is stopping you but why would you work 60 hours a week for some boring European company that only pays you EUR60k when you can work the same hours in SV on something interesting and make $150k+.

Because a house costs you 200k instead of 400k

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#126

Post by cableshaft »

67726e wrote: post #53
chris_7 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even worse, when I go to the doctor, I have no idea what I'm going to pay. You can possible decode it, but good luck - and if he or she sends something to a lab, etc. one day a bill will just show up and you'll just have to pay it. The doctor doesn't say "we can do a lab test, it'll cost you $40" or anything. Imagine if your dry cleaner wouldn't tell you what the charge would be until your clothes had already been cl…

Oh, and that bill is probably gonna be full of medical coding mistakes too. Tests and procedures and all kinds of things marked up, put in the wrong category, and so forth. Expect to have to wrestle the insurance and the hospital for corrections.

I've had to do that once. I got denied short term medical insurance because they said I had diabetes (this is before Obamacare).

I've never had diabetes. I called my doctor and it turned out they coded one of my visits wrong and said I had diabetes, and it had been in everyone's system for at least a couple of years. Wonderful. Got it fixed, at least.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#127

Post by skywhopper »

The data is ambiguous as presented. The chart footnote says "Overall hours per person, not just for people with jobs incorporating time at work along with retirement, vacation, unemployment, and other time spent out of the workforce." which does not tell me if it counts children and is still vague about whether it includes adults who have no intention or desire to find a job.

The data given is in the article is far too sparse to draw any conclusions from. I hope the paper it's based on is more explicit and careful.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#128

Post by pc86 »

JBlue42 wrote: post #93
ajmurmann wrote: post #32

I find it astonishing how positive Bloomberg tries to spin this: People earn a wider range of incomes in the U.S., so “workers have an incentive to try harder to move up the job ladder because a promotion is worth more,” said Dora Gicheva -The income range in the US is so large that there are lots of people at the bottom end who have to work multiple jobs. How much does that have to do with the longer work hours, Blo…

And working more hours doesn't necessarily mean more income. I support an AEC firm and the 'architects' (quotes because most have not been licensed yet) typically work 10-12 hour days, sometimes weekends on a salary. Their take home income might be at a certain level but their effective hourly rate is reduced. Now, there is the argument out there that working those incredible hours can lead to more income since in Am…

Working more means more income only insofar as it's pretty hard to get promoted if you're working 40 hours and everyone else is working 80 even if you're better producer.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#129

Post by aianus »

drcross wrote: post #125
aianus wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is stopping you but why would you work 60 hours a week for some boring European company that only pays you EUR60k when you can work the same hours in SV on something interesting and make $150k+.

Because a house costs you 200k instead of 400k

So move back to Europe after five years in SV and buy the house in cash.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#130

Post by callcall »

RandomName2020 wrote: post #103
jypepin wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a very light analysis from me, so might not be fully true, but I live in the US, now in Europe, and in Canada before that. You could also say Canada is kind of in the middle. Well, maybe correlation doesn't imply causation in that case but here is what I can see: - US > Canada > Europe in terms of opportunities, be it starting salary, end-of-career salaries, and everything in the middle such as promotions, perso…

> it's harder to move from a class to another compared to the US. Not true: social mobility in US is lower than in Europe and Canada.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2013/dec/19/...
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