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Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

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Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#71

Post by tirant »

oblio wrote: post #57
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

In almost all European cities except for London (where the cost of living compensates for the disparity, anyway), you're lucky if you're making EUR 70k per year as a senior developer. From what I've heard in the US a senior developer in a comparable location, i.e. West Coast/East Coast makes at least $ 100k per year. On top of that, many American software companies give out stock, which almost no European companies d…

That's if you find yourself in an ideal condition: No health issues or no social issues that blocked you from having a perfect career.

If for any unfortunate reason you are not able to land a decent-payed job, the situation in Europe is much, much better.

So yes, top workers life Software Engineers may earn less. But the safety net for the whole population is way better in Europe.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#72

Post by pessimizer »

vinay427 wrote: post #17
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

About 90% of Americans overall have health insurance. Most full-time tech jobs in the US at the companies that would pay more than European salaries will include sufficient health insurance. I'm not sure who you're referring to dying in the streets because of a lack of medical treatment due to financial limitations.

I currently have an condition that requires surgery that I'm putting off because even with my insurance (which costs me about 25% of my rent every month, or more than the total of all of my utility bills including phone and internet) it's still expensive enough that I can't do it now. This condition is the result of minor issues that I noticed nearly a decade ago, when I had no insurance, and I decided that I needed to tough it out rather than not have enough money to pay rent.

Just wanted to make this less abstract for you. Lack of insurance led to a more complex situation that underinsurance leaves me helpless to solve, while homelessness waits for me to choose health over shelter.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#73

Post by 7Z7 »

overcast wrote: post #36

Less happy, certainly plausible. The only world superpower, definitely. While I don't have any evidence to back any of that up, it certainly appears the nation working the most, has the biggest economy/power. Obviously money/power isn't everything though.

>..it certainly appears the nation working the most, has the biggest economy/power

Mexico? Interesting, I'd never have thought it.

http://fortune.com/2015/11/11/chart-work-week-oecd/

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#74

Post by donretag »

I would love to live and work in Italy (or any other Mediterranean climate country), but there are simply no [tech] jobs. And what few software jobs there are are not interesting at all and pay very little.

I value my time and I am willing to take a pay cut to live in Europe, but the jobs are not simply there. Why can there be no middle ground? For now, the plan is to work hard and retire early. Real estate price chages in Europe can be considered flat compared to the US.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#75

Post by BjoernKW »

MarkMc wrote: post #25
cletus wrote: post #2

Thing is, in the software world at least, you earn >25% more than Europeans in the US. Just look at salaries in London. Given the extraordinary cost of living, salaries are pitiful. Why is that?

> Just look at salaries in London. Given the extraordinary cost of living, salaries are pitiful. That certainly wasn't the case when I was working in London about 10 years ago. The going rate for a Java contractor with banking experience was about £600 per day (then $1,100). Have things changed that much in 10 years?

It's more like 500 quid these days. In addition to that, the recent plunge of the pound has made it increasingly unattractive to be paid in pounds at all.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#76

Post by Merad »

vinay427 wrote: post #17
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

About 90% of Americans overall have health insurance. Most full-time tech jobs in the US at the companies that would pay more than European salaries will include sufficient health insurance. I'm not sure who you're referring to dying in the streets because of a lack of medical treatment due to financial limitations.

More and more Americans are getting stuck with High Deductible Health Plans, which for all intents don't exist until you fork over several thousand dollars to meet your deductible (excepting a limited range of "preventable care" items that are covered).

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#77

Post by cletus »

MarkMc wrote: post #25
cletus wrote: post #2

Thing is, in the software world at least, you earn >25% more than Europeans in the US. Just look at salaries in London. Given the extraordinary cost of living, salaries are pitiful. Why is that?

> Just look at salaries in London. Given the extraordinary cost of living, salaries are pitiful. That certainly wasn't the case when I was working in London about 10 years ago. The going rate for a Java contractor with banking experience was about £600 per day (then $1,100). Have things changed that much in 10 years?

I used to do contracting in the UK in large part because salaries were pitiful compared to contracting rates and when contracting you ended up paying way less tax so got to keep much more of your already higher income.

But 600 pounds is now like $750. Assume 4 weeks vacation, public holidays, time between contracts and you should probably assume 200 paid days per year. That's 120k pounds/year or $150k/year. Not great.

Not sure what contracting rates are like now. It's been awhile. When I was doing it (more than 10 years ago), banking contract was often north of 500/day.

Thing is, those contracting in banking jobs can be hard to get. Typically you need experience in banking. If demand exceeds supply (as it did in the late 90s) then that's not a problem. When supply is relatively high (as it was in the early 2000s) then that's a huge barrier to entry.

If you're locked out of that field your rates are typically much lower (at the time more like ~300-350 a day).

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#78

Post by wmt »

jdc0589 wrote: post #40

Europeans have this shit figured out then. 25% less work means stopping at 3:00PM every day for me (unless you count the difference as block vacations). This would be LIFECHANGING. I get bored and stop concentrating around that time every day as is.

The workdays in Europe are your pretty typical 8 hour days, the difference I think comes from the 15-30 annual vacation days per year, plus all the public holidays.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#79

Post by thescriptkiddie »

vinay427 wrote: post #17
ythl wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because European governments take a lot more out of your salary before it reaches you in exchange for social services (pensions, healthcare, etc). Unlike America where you are expected to either drop a stack of bills just to see the doctor or die in the streets.

About 90% of Americans overall have health insurance. Most full-time tech jobs in the US at the companies that would pay more than European salaries will include sufficient health insurance. I'm not sure who you're referring to dying in the streets because of a lack of medical treatment due to financial limitations.

Employer provided health insurance is generally not worth your time, especially if you change jobs a lot. I pay for my insurance out of pocket even though my employer offers it, because I can't afford 20% copays.

Re: Americans Work 25% More Than Europeans, Study Finds

#80

Post by 7Z7 »

imron wrote: post #29
eeZah7Ux wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where is "we"?

Is there any other developed nation where you pay $300 a month for health insurance and it doesn't cover you for the first $10,000 of expenses?

I believe the point was undoing the US-normative "we", rather than questioning the location of the speaker.
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