Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

alexkras.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 204 posts

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#161

Post by ohstopitu »

rakoo wrote: post #95
mintplant wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one more step along Google's path to eating the internet. Google-served content discovered through Google search rendered in Google's browser running on Google's operating system on a Google-manufactured device connected through Google's ISP and Google's network protocol (QUIC). Vertical integration.

You know the cool thing about this integration ? Any part can be replaced. Some instantly, some take more time because they involve physical stuff. People use the Google integration because it's there by default, not because they are locked-in.

I want to Android as an example to prove otherwise.

While yes, you can install CyanogenMod (without Google Play Services), or others along those lines that remove the "Google" out of Android, it's true value (for most common users) is Google Play Services.

While you can say that you can get apps from apkmirror or F Droid, most apps still won't work without Play Services (case & point - Snapchat)

my entire point being - yes, it's very easy to have alternatives (and their importance can't be ignored), Google services (be it Play, or Gmail or others) are what people are looking for.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#162

Post by bognition »

goda90 wrote: post #154
rakoo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the cool thing about this integration ? Any part can be replaced. Some instantly, some take more time because they involve physical stuff. People use the Google integration because it's there by default, not because they are locked-in.

There's a part that already can't be replaced while keeping all the others. Google Fi only works with Nexus devices. It could be a lack of OEM interest, but who knows what Google does that might keep it that way.

or any device that accepts a nano-sim. I know several people who use a google-fi sim in iphones

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#163

Post by xg15 »

I think one important point is hidden within this sentence:

"The original idea behind AMP was to allow content to be distributed to platforms (such as Google, Twitter and Pinterest) in a way that retains [...] control for the publisher."

(emphasis mine)

So Google sees itself as a platform in the tradition of Twitter and Pinterest - i.e. a controlled space on which content (with more or less control by the authors) is published. That's a significant difference to the gateway to the open web that they primarily still are at the moment.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#164

Post by coldpie »

the_duke wrote: post #124
lucaspiller wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the moment yes you are right, but if we want it to stay that way we need to do something about it now. I agree that people mainly use Google because it's the default, but if we aren't careful there won't be an alternative left that can stand up against them. The only hope we'll have then is that Facebook, Apple, Amazon or Microsoft decide to tackle Google head on, but in most cases where that has happened in the p…

With search, we already approaching that point. No other search engine comes close to the quality of Google, at least for certain topics. Outside of Russia, China, Japan and some other countries Google is the dominant search with a big lead. And that is troubling indeed! Competition is good. And necessary for a healthy market. It also means that Google has a huge amount of control over what information can be discove…

If we continue down that road as you worry, at some point regulatory action might be appropriate. Google already seems to be breaking itself up via Alphabet, maybe they should just be cleaved entirely to avoid collusion and encourage competitors. On the other hand, the gov't avoided breaking up Microsoft back in the day, and this seems to have worked out OK as competitors sprung up into the gap the gov't wedged open anyway.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#165

Post by lgieron »

rakoo wrote: post #95
mintplant wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's one more step along Google's path to eating the internet. Google-served content discovered through Google search rendered in Google's browser running on Google's operating system on a Google-manufactured device connected through Google's ISP and Google's network protocol (QUIC). Vertical integration.

You know the cool thing about this integration ? Any part can be replaced. Some instantly, some take more time because they involve physical stuff. People use the Google integration because it's there by default, not because they are locked-in.

Once they start to feel confident in their domination, there's nothing preventing them from going the Microsoft way, i.e.:

1. Introducing incompatibilities, forcing closed standards etc. which block any potential competition.

2. Stop spending as much on product development.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#166

Post by criddell »

dingo_bat wrote: post #22
criddell wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amp isn't ideal, but neither is Instant Articles on Facebook. I'm hoping that Amp is really just Google training publishers how to make web pages that aren't terrible for users.

Instant articles is even worse, IMO. But Facebook is not pretending it's the next version of the Web. Google is, so they set up an expectation of Web like behaviors.

So what would you have done if you were in charge at Google?

At the time Amp was announced, Facebook's Instant Articles was really taking off. It was by far the best place to read news online and arguably still is.

To get a similar experience outside of Facebook (before Amp) you had to use an ad blocker. Right around that time, Apple added support for ad blocking in iOS and suddenly ad supported content outside of Facebook was looking unsustainable.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#167

Post by bo1024 »

xg15 wrote: post #163

I think one important point is hidden within this sentence: "The original idea behind AMP was to allow content to be distributed to platforms (such as Google , Twitter and Pinterest) in a way that retains [...] control for the publisher." (emphasis mine) So Google sees itself as a platform in the tradition of Twitter and Pinterest - i.e. a controlled space on which content (with more or less control by the authors) i…

I agree, this is the key insight. Google sees itself as moving toward what I see as a more reddit-like model. People might occasionally click away on links to other sites, but the idea is to keep them on Google's "platform" by default.

That's why clicking "X" means "go back to Google", because in this model, you never left. You just temporarily viewed some content in a pane which you are now closing.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#168

Post by esrauch »

adrianratnapala wrote: post #99
kbenson wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not everyone finds a useful page given their query from the first result they check. I often check between 2-4 results for some queries before I find what I want. Also, given that it's hiding during scrolling now (or soon, depending on your platform) and you'll supposedly soon have the ability to define your own AMP menu, I think it mostly should calm the GGP's nerves.

Then this is a half-baked solution to the problems caused by making tabbed browsing hard. On the desktop, I will open a bunch of tabs and close the ones that don't pan out. Not just after a Google search, but after anything resembling a search. Mobile browsers allow this (though slightly awkwardly), but most mobile apps which display web content don't allow anything like this.

Do you think that it how most people search? (I'm not being sarcastic, I doubt they do but I obviously don't know)

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#169

Post by rakoo »

ohstopitu wrote: post #161
rakoo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the cool thing about this integration ? Any part can be replaced. Some instantly, some take more time because they involve physical stuff. People use the Google integration because it's there by default, not because they are locked-in.

I want to Android as an example to prove otherwise. While yes, you can install CyanogenMod (without Google Play Services), or others along those lines that remove the "Google" out of Android, it's true value (for most common users) is Google Play Services. While you can say that you can get apps from apkmirror or F Droid, most apps still won't work without Play Services (case & point - Snapchat) my entire point being…

Yes, alternatives inside the Android ecosystem are more technically doable than easily doable.

I was more thinking of other operating systems: we are fare from lacking functioning alternatives both on mobile and on desktop.

Re: Response from Google Tech Lead, Re: “Google May Be Stealing Your Mobile Traffic”

#170

Post by rakoo »

pyrale wrote: post #120
rakoo wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know the cool thing about this integration ? Any part can be replaced. Some instantly, some take more time because they involve physical stuff. People use the Google integration because it's there by default, not because they are locked-in.

> You know the cool thing about this integration ? Any part can be replaced. How do you replace search ? How do you get competitive against mail, youtube without the amount of data google uses to sell ad on them ?

There are existing alternatives, today, that are profitable. What makes you think it's not possible to use something else ?
Post reply on HN