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Shame on Y Combinator

marco.org

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Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#171

Post by makomk »

FussyZeus wrote: post #72

While I agree with a lot of what Marco says in spirit, there is a HUGE point that Altman makes as well: > The way we got into a situation with Trump as a major party nominee in the first place was by not talking to people who are very different than we are. […] This one sentence I think fully encapsulates why the Republican base has gone to the extremes it has. They don't give a damn about who Trump is or the awful t…

Not even just ignoring large chunks of the country, but actively arguing that their problems don't exist and that anyone who thinks otherwise is just making excuses for racism: https://baselinescenario.com/2016/10/17/you-cant-get-there-f...

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#172

Post by prawn »

ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

Does he really represent that group of people? Or does he appeal to them because no one actually represents them? I think he's there for himself and whoever will give people the impression that he's winning.

Obviously there are many disillusioned people but I certainly don't think Trump is the best option for them. I'd like to see far more real attention and representation given to the crowd you speak of.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#173

Post by CalChris »

thght wrote: post #85

Shame on you for blaming Y Combinator. If it was 1.25 million for Clinton you would probably praise Y Combinator, no? This feels more like a clash between your personal political preferences and Mr Thiels's. You are just blaming Y Combinator to inflate this story, trying to get more people on the Clinton side. Shame on you!

This is equivocation. Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump are in no sense equivalent. In fact, Trump is so historically bad that leading figures of his own party are disowning him. Major donors are clawing back contributions. The RNC even halted its support.

http://www.politico.com/story/2016/10/rnc-halts-all-victory-...

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#174

Post by retrogradeorbit »

Marcos here, line many, falls for the classic myth. That change can come to America via the ballot box. That it matters who you vote for. That the election makes a difference. How many times do we need to be reminded that this isn't true? How many elections of false hope gone nowhere do we need to see?

I'll say it again as I have innumerable times before. It does not matter one bit who gets elected president.

As Emma Goldman once quipped, "If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal."

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#175

Post by tomgp »

ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

Wrong. This exactly the kind of sophistry that Marco refutes. Political positions are moral positions, to believe otherwise is hopelessly naive

>in a democracy everyone have the right to say and mean what they want without having to fear the repercussions

No, that's not what free speech is. You have the right to say what you want but you must accept the consequences.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#176

Post by sagichmal »

msandford wrote: post #133
sagichmal wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you joking? Trump is _transparently_ corrupt. The Trump Foundation exists to serve as a tax shield, funneling donor money to Trump and his family personally. C.f. the allegations of corruption toward Clinton and the Clinton Foundation, which are laughably indistinct and incomparable. If corruption is what you care about, then Hillary Clinton is _inarguably_ the superior candidate.

So stuff against Trump is proven 100% for reals and stuff against Clinton is mere allegations? Hmmmm. I'm not a Trump supporter by any stretch of the imagination, but I do find it fascinating how easily people manage to rationalize things. I'm sure there are TONS of folks who would decry a person for being a climate denier who would then perform the exact same mental process to 'overlook' whatever problems exist with…

> So stuff against Trump is proven 100% for reals and stuff against Clinton is mere allegations? Hmmmm.

Well there's obviously a spectrum but I think it's absolutely inarguable that Trump's foundation is a tax dodge and that Trump is transparently corrupt; and I think at worst you can say that Clinton made some bad choices, but yes absolutely the allegations against her are without proof.

> I'm sure there are TONS of folks who would decry a person for being a climate denier who would then perform the exact same mental process to 'overlook' whatever problems exist with the Clintons.

Of course nobody is overlooking problems, and your attempts at equivocation are transparently concern trolling. But it's pretty inarguable that "whatever problems exist with the Clintons" are speculative and completely incomparable with "whatever problems exist with Trump".

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#177

Post by galactus »

ThomPete wrote: post #127

Marcos understanding of this situation is extremely telling for a fundamental problem with many americans relationship with politics. Most only get involved around election. After that their political interest is non existing. It's easy to get lured into the idea that politics is a simple choice between the moral good and the moral bad, that the choice is simple and that there is a one to one relationship between wha…

"the fundamental principle that no matter what in a democracy everyone have the right to say and mean what they want without having to fear the repercussions"

I think you are mixing things, Democracy does not give anyone the right to be liked even when they say awful stuff. Marco is not saying that supporting Trump should be illegal, he is saying that supporting Trump is shameful, and that supporting someone who supports Trump at such scale is shameful too.

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#178

Post by jaypaulynice »

I'm not a Trump supporter, but all the YC shaming is terrible. You're advocating for dictatorship where only one political view matters.

Wikipedia: "A dictatorship is a type of authoritarianism, in which politicians regulate nearly every aspect of the public and private behavior of citizens."

Re: Shame on Y Combinator

#180

Post by tomgp »

_hao wrote: post #118

You Americans (at least I think the majority of you are Americans) are getting quite ridiculous arguing over this. Supporting a political candidate is a personal choice, one that is given to every eligible individual in a democratic state. Calling for someone to be fired or sever ties with them over political choice is retarded and counter-productive.

By donating millions of $ you cross the line from speech to action.
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