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The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

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Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#31

Post by inimino »

kowdermeister wrote: post #20
omegote wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you find the js fragmentation a feature and not a stinking pile of shit? Seriously.

First the term. By fragmentation I mean two things: 1) we have many libraries doing the same thing. 2) the implementation is JS is not the same in every environment. If you are spending most of your time writing other languages which have a standard library, I can understand your opinion. However, I see fragmentation as: 1) It introduces the opportunity everyone on the planet to give a shot at implementing something…

The fact that people can contribute is great, the fact that it is impossible to get started in modern JS development without making dozens of seemingly inscrutable choices is not.

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#32

Post by pluma »

revelation wrote: post #22

Wow can you say "scope creep"

Why?

The Linux Foundation is not specific to Linux and already includes the Node Foundation which maintains Node.js.

The JS Foundation is just the rebranded jQuery Foundation which already included projects not related to jQuery (e.g. Dojo or Grunt).

Neither foundation has changed its scope with this announcement.

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#33

Post by inimino »

StreamBright wrote: post #8
hoorayimhelping wrote: post #7

I don't have a ton of experience with the Linux Foundation, but publishing a list of "official" JavaScript libraries to seems like a step in the right direction. One of the largest complaints about the JS ecosystem today is the huge number of choices in libraries available. Maybe this provides a good starting point for a lot of people who feel lost. Or maybe it's just one more library that we all have to understand a…

I am not sure if anybody can pick the right library for a company other than the technical leadership, though.

It also doesn't seem to be what the foundation is trying to do.

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#34

Post by Noseshine »

mugsie wrote: post #18
kowdermeister wrote: post #6

I don't see the need for this to cherry pick a few project and push them with the Linux brand. The JS landscape is fragmented for a good reason and I don't see that as problem in fact, rather as a feature. With NPM and YARN we already have a good enough package management system and their platform can help me evaluate if a package is community supported enough. I'm talking about the stats that I can just check: numbe…

> I also don't see faces here: https://js.foundation/members/ Who runs the show? https://js.foundation/governance/ seems to have placeholders

The member list is amazingly small. The only well-known names and the only "platinum" names are IBM and Samsung, personally I never heard of any of the rest of the members before. I say "amazingly" for the amount of attention this gets (I first saw it on reddit and a number of other websites). I would expect to see at least Google and Microsoft and possibly Mozilla on there, and whoever represents node.js (the foundation itself, or someone).

The way this usually works AFAIK is that you try to get as much "buy-in" from as many important parties as possible before making the first big public announcement. It seems that in this case that didn't quite work out, and they instead hope to let the announcement itself be what starts the ball rolling to get more members on board.

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#35

Post by davidgerard »

"founding members include Bocoup, IBM, Ripple, Samsung, Sauce Labs, Sense Tecnic Systems, SitePen, StackPath, University of Westminster and WebsiteSetup."

There's a name missing there I would have expected to see. Starts with M. Mo... mo ... something.

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#36

Post by pluma »

opendomain wrote: post #19

A few years ago, some high profile organizations (W3C, Adobe, Facebook, Google, Hp, Intel, Microsoft, Mozilla, Nokia, Opera) came together to try to help standardize the web platform [1](Javascript, CSS, HTML). That was a HUGE failure - because it was driven by business rather than developers. How will the "Javascript foundation" do better? [1] http://webplatform.com

I don't see how WebPlatform was about standardizing. The standards bodies already exist: W3C (with its various WGs), WHAT WG, TC39. The main goal of WebPlatform was to provide a consistent documentation for all standard web technologies -- which largely relied on volunteer work and competed with existing solutions like the Mozilla Developer Network (despite Mozilla supporting the project).

I don't see the JS Foundation being even remotely related to this. The JS Foundation is pretty much just a small Apache Foundation for JS projects. And it's not new: it's mostly a rebranding of the jQuery Foundation which has existed for years.

It's also decidedly not the "JavaScript Foundation". They don't have the trademark for JavaScript (I think technically Oracle still holds the JavaScript trademark with Mozilla having an unrestricted license to use it). It isn't affiliated with TC39 or any standards body and it doesn't steer the development of the language.

IMO the name is unfortunate unless they extend the scope beyond "we support a couple of open source JS projects".

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#37

Post by radioact1ve »

inimino wrote: post #31
kowdermeister wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First the term. By fragmentation I mean two things: 1) we have many libraries doing the same thing. 2) the implementation is JS is not the same in every environment. If you are spending most of your time writing other languages which have a standard library, I can understand your opinion. However, I see fragmentation as: 1) It introduces the opportunity everyone on the planet to give a shot at implementing something…

The fact that people can contribute is great, the fact that it is impossible to get started in modern JS development without making dozens of seemingly inscrutable choices is not.

Exactly this. All of the upfront choices, will I make the right choice? I've been meaning to jump in and learn. After years of backend development (C#, Python, and some Go), I want to give JS a shot and at least experiment.

It's a daunting process that I keep pushing back as there is no immediate need.

Re: The Linux Foundation Unites the JavaScript Community for Open Web Development

#40

Post by heisenbit »

kowdermeister wrote: post #20
omegote wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you find the js fragmentation a feature and not a stinking pile of shit? Seriously.

First the term. By fragmentation I mean two things: 1) we have many libraries doing the same thing. 2) the implementation is JS is not the same in every environment. If you are spending most of your time writing other languages which have a standard library, I can understand your opinion. However, I see fragmentation as: 1) It introduces the opportunity everyone on the planet to give a shot at implementing something…

I concur with your experience that date-picker is a not yet solved problem. I disagree that I can find in 15 minutes an alternative that carries less risk repeating the same experience.

For the building to rise higher the foundations need some solidifying.

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