Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#271

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:56 PM UTC

paulv wrote: post #264

Turing_Machine wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Strom Thurmond" How about Hillary Clinton's "friend and mentor", a man of "eloquence and nobility" (her actual words) Robert C. Byrd? You know, "KKK Kleagle" Byrd? "Tried to filibuster the 1964 Civil Rights Act" Byrd? "I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side. ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of…

Nope. "I know now I was wrong. Intolerance had no place in America. I apologized a thousand times ... and I don't mind apologizing over and over again. I can't erase what happened." -- Robert Byrd "Senator Byrd reflects the transformative power of this nation," stated NAACP President and CEO Benjamin Todd Jealous. "Senator Byrd went from being an active member of the KKK to a being a stalwart supporter of the Civil R…

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#272

Post by bcheung » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:57 PM UTC

aiig wrote: post #236

bcheung wrote: post #158

Thiel is both Libertarian and gay. It's unlikely he is supportive of Trump's / Republican's bigotry, but more an issue of practicality since he doesn't like the alternative. I also find it ironic that something called Project Include is upset because someone is supporting a party that a huge percentage of the country is going to vote for. YC had nothing to do with Thiel's donation and you dissociate from them when th…

You're clearly not gay or else you'd recognize that Thiel is self-hating, making his support of Trump's bigotry actually well-motivated.

Sorry, I must be ignorant of some facts. What am I missing? I haven't seen anything from Thiel that would be lead me to believe he is anti-gay. It seems quite the contrary to me. He even said in his Republican speech that he was gay. What do you mean by self-hating? His choice of the Republican party? There's really only 2 choices so you can't really take that to mean he supports everything from the Republican party.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#273

Post by amyjess » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:57 PM UTC

virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #252

amyjess wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just adding to this, claiming that a democratic election is rigged is one of Umberto Eco's 14 signs of Ur-Fascism [0]: > Wherever a politician casts doubt on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism. [0] http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

Awesome find. Sharing this.

You're welcome!

You might also be interested in some analyses I found of how these points apply to Trump. Unfortunately some of these links are a few months old so they don't mention some more recent events (the second debate gave us plenty of more material for #3 and #14 and probably others, and the whole thing with the tape and the sexual assault allegations adds fuel to #12):

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12175456

http://lithub.com/umberto-eco-on-donald-trump-14-ways-of-loo...

https://warisboring.com/yes-trump-is-a-fascist-heres-the-che...

http://www.theatlantic.com/notes/2016/10/fascism/502841/

(and if I find more within the edit window, I'll add them)

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#274

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:58 PM UTC

virgil_disgr4ce wrote: post #252

amyjess wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just adding to this, claiming that a democratic election is rigged is one of Umberto Eco's 14 signs of Ur-Fascism [0]: > Wherever a politician casts doubt on the legitimacy of a parliament because it no longer represents the Voice of the People, we can smell Ur-Fascism. [0] http://www.nybooks.com/articles/1995/06/22/ur-fascism/

Awesome find. Sharing this.

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#275

Post by serge2k » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 8:04 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #227

archagon wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely you realize how disingenuous this statement is? Trump's mantra of "the media is conspiring against me, the polls are all rigged, the election will be stolen from under us" is a far cry from anything we've seen in previous years. This has nothing to do with electronic voting machines. This is straight FUD in the most primal possible sense.

> This is straight FUD in the most primal possible sense. Trump may be saying it for the wrong reasons, but he's absolutely right that the integrity of the election is in doubt.

He's absolutely not right.

It's fine to question things, but just saying "it's in doubt" with no argument is just Trump style FUD.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#276

Post by nostromo » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

untog wrote: post #101

dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

IMO, you can even disregard all of Trump's dirty laundry in this calculation. He is openly calling into doubt the result of this election before it's even happened, asking supporters to intimidate voters, and suggesting the entire election is "rigged". He is attempting to undermine democracy in the country and I'm not sure you need a single additional reason to object to anyone who supports him. Thiel, of course, doe…

For what it's worth, I haven't heard many complaints about Bernie Sanders claiming elections are bought.

> We now have a political situation where billionaires are literally able to buy elections and candidates. Let’s not kid ourselves. That is the reality right now. [1]

(He also is fond of claiming "the system" is rigged, if not elections directly.)

[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/sanders-takes-on-bil...

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#277

Post by EdiX » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 8:05 PM UTC

jackfrodo wrote: post #28

Overtonwindow wrote: post #5

Nope. Not Ellen Pao. In my humble opinion she has zero credibility and I don't think she is a voice for the tech community. I mean at all.

This is the kind of knee-jerk dismissal that made me lose respect for the reddit community. What she's saying resonates with a lot of people, especially marginalized ones, and for that reason alone she's worth hearing out.

In what way a group of people that has the almost unanimous support of mainstream media, the current government and the (most likely) upcoming government can be called marginalized?

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#278

Post by jshevek » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 8:07 PM UTC

dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

> If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good investors?

Trump does not threaten technological innovation the way that SOPA did.

>I think it's fair to ask whether, if Peter Thiel is so clueless as to donate

In what way is Peter Thiel demonstrating cluelessness comparable to being in support of SOPA? You are conflating a demonstrated incompetence regarding the impact of SOPA on innovation, with more generalized differences of political opinion.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#279

Post by sn9 » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 8:08 PM UTC

hiringmanager wrote: post #201

untog wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you're describing seems only natural to me. Very few people sit entirely within the spectrum of one of the two parties - they have to evaluate both and see which has the most pluses. If you're gay, the Republican party is threatening your ability to get married and live without discrimination, so I can believe that might seem more important than relatively minor shifts in economic policy.

I am Gay. Hillary Clinton is on the record her entire career as opposing gay marriage. Trump, when questioned what he would do if he found out an employee was gay said "it makes no difference". As far as I'm concerned, the Clintons (Bill signed the "Defense of Marriage Act" in the first place) are the anti-gay ones (and add Obama to that too) Not all of us are gullible to the blatant pandering and fear mongering demo…

And what about the 'T' in 'LGBT'?

Surely you haven't already forgotten the rise in anti-trans discriminatory legislation in recent years? Do you think Trump and his supporters are the type to not support those? Which party is it that's been at the forefront of anti-discriminatory legislation and equal protection in general?

It sucks that the first past the post voting system of ours all but guarantees that we must choose between the lesser of two evils to avoid throwing our vote away, but what else are you going to do? A vote for a third party is a vote that increases the probability of a Trump presidency.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#280

Post by jshevek » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 8:09 PM UTC

st3v3r wrote: post #258

xupybd wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it okay to call out white western males, but to focus down on any other gender and race with a negative statement like that would be seen as intolerant?

Historical context.

Sadly, racists always find ways to rationalize their racism.