The 2016 Election • Hacker News Board

Re: The 2016 Election

#181

Post by MBCook » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:38 PM UTC

mtgx wrote: post #95

lhnz wrote: post #6

> We should all feel a duty to try to understand the roughly > half of the country that thinks we are severely misguided. > I don’t understand how 43% of the country supports Trump. > But I’d like to find out, because we have to include > everyone in our path forward. If our best ideas are to > stop talking to or fire anyone who disagrees with us, > we’ll be facing this whole situation again in 2020. > > That kind of…

What I don't understand "even more" than that (literally, by the numbers) is how 49% of the country is registered independent and yet keeps voting Democrat and Republican. Worse yet, 76% of the country "wants to see alternatives" in the debates...but still keeps voting Democrat and Republican. Even if people agree to buy into this whole "this election is special" premise, I think people would be well within their rig…

Let's say I was independent and lived in Ohio or some other swing state. What choices do I have?

* Vote Dem, have a reasonable chance at my pick winning

* Vote Repub, have a reasonable chance at my pick winning

* Vote other, have no chance at my pick winning.

In an ordinary election you may be willing to do #3 to 'send a message', etc. But in THIS election almost everyone seems to agree that one or both of the candidates are horrible and will ruin everything. So if you go #3 then you get no say in which major party candidate will win. I'd much rather have A win than B, even if I liked some third party more (right now I don't anyway, they're pretty crazy this year too).

I'd want my vote to count, and I don't think it would unless I voted major party.

As it is my vote won't count, because the outcome of my state is not in question at all.

Re: The 2016 Election

#182

Post by gjolund » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #117

I'm not from the US but I'd vote for Trump. To me Hillary represent the imperial US, the economic Hitmen US, the could war US, the NSA US, the make sure Russia-Europe relations are poor US. She represents the elites, the Rothschilds, the banks, the family of secrets, the kill-list, the endless meddling in countries that have a lot of natural resources "for the common good". She represents Guantanamo bay, more drones…

As an American I share your view of Hillary.

There are other candidates besides Trump, but I feel like I am taking crazy pills trying to educate people on Hillary's history.

Re: The 2016 Election

#183

Post by linkregister » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

darawk wrote: post #130

misterbowfinger wrote: post #14

> I will continue to try to change [his grandmother & Thiel's] minds. I can get behind that. > of course, if Peter said some of the things Trump says himself, he would no longer be part of Y Combinator sama should address the weird things Peter has said about women voting.

He didn't say women shouldn't be able to vote. He said that giving women the right to vote has eroded some of his libertarian ideals, because women tend to oppose those ideals. Which is a true statement.

It seems to imply a hell of a lot.

"I'm not saying that darawk's down/up-voting should be revoked, but he sometimes upvotes things that aren't the best for our country."

The above (wrong) sentence would be an example of this type of implication.

Re: The 2016 Election

#184

Post by colmvp » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

marbletiles wrote: post #7

YC: Happy to cut people off over SOPA support. YC: Can't bring itself to even censure a billionaire who only works with them "part-time" for supporting actual hatred and sexual abuse. I await this thread filling up with "but how you can be tolerant if you don't tolerate intolerance?!" and other Phil-101 Do You Sees

I highly doubt that Thiel supports sexual abuse anymore than I think all my friends who are going to vote for Clinton support foreign interventionism, the need to regulate video games like narcotics, etc.

Re: The 2016 Election

#185

Post by perakojotgenije » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #117

I'm not from the US but I'd vote for Trump. To me Hillary represent the imperial US, the economic Hitmen US, the could war US, the NSA US, the make sure Russia-Europe relations are poor US. She represents the elites, the Rothschilds, the banks, the family of secrets, the kill-list, the endless meddling in countries that have a lot of natural resources "for the common good". She represents Guantanamo bay, more drones…

Amen to that. Another non US citizen here with the same feeling about this election. You managed to successfully summarize what I feel towards Hillary for a few months now.

Re: The 2016 Election

#186

Post by tedajax » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

mejari wrote: post #132

gjolund wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Now Trump = actual hatred. I don't support trump, but the hyperbole is getting exhausting.

I encourage you to watch one of his recent rallies. It is not hyperbole.

Seriously I feel like I'm taking crazy pills on HN the way people are apologizing for Trump in this thread. This is a man that has sexually assaulted women and actively campaigned on kicking out all the "others".

Trump is not worthy of defense.

Re: The 2016 Election

#187

Post by ocdtrekkie » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

"The way we got into a situation with Trump as a major party nominee in the first place was by not talking to people who are very different than we are."

There's a ton of value in this sentence, because I find especially amongst the tech crowd, people are so isolated in the echo chambers created by their local populations, their choice of friends on social media, etc. We seek out likeminded people, and eventually, once we surround ourselves with them, suddenly other views, even popular views, seem crazy and radical. But they do come from somewhere, and generally those people have legitimate reasons for feeling the way they do.

Re: The 2016 Election

#188

Post by kapitza » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #6

> We should all feel a duty to try to understand the roughly > half of the country that thinks we are severely misguided. > I don’t understand how 43% of the country supports Trump. > But I’d like to find out, because we have to include > everyone in our path forward. If our best ideas are to > stop talking to or fire anyone who disagrees with us, > we’ll be facing this whole situation again in 2020. > > That kind of…

> That's not how things are done in this country.

Tocqueville, almost 200 years ago, begs to differ:

"I know of no country in which there is so little independence of mind and real freedom of discussion as in America.... in America the majority raises formidable barriers around the liberty of opinion; within these barriers an author may write what he pleases; but woe to him if he goes beyond them." [1]

What's changed this year isn't that Americans are being purged for having the wrong political ideas. That's been happening not for 200 years, but well over 300. Roger Williams, anyone? [2]

What's changed this year is that the major candidate of one of the main two parties holds beliefs that would get any normal American purged. Added to this is the velocity of change: 50 years ago, most normal Americans held these same beliefs. (Heck, not 10 years ago, both Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton were swearing up and down that "marriage is between a man and a woman.")

So you're seeing two processes: an increase in the speed at which America's governing class can evolve its beliefs, and a decrease in their ability to drag the rest of America along with them. No surprise that the latter group wants to respond to an existential threat with an existential threat.

[1] http://dailyprincetonian.com/opinion/2001/10/alexis-de-tocqu... [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roger_Williams

Re: The 2016 Election

#189

Post by intopieces » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

sp527 wrote: post #5

> of course, if Peter said some of the things Trump says himself, he would no longer be part of Y Combinator). This is precisely where your whole argument fell apart. If money is speech (and SCOTUS tells us it is) and Thiel donates over $1 million to Trump's campaign, then he effectively is saying what Trump is saying. Money talks. In our society, it's almost always even louder than the calm reasoning of a rationalis…

>then he effectively is saying what Trump is saying.

This is a very dangerous way of viewing politics, and exactly the kind of black-and-white thinking we're trying to get away from. Just because you donate to someone, just because you vote for them, just because you campaign for them does not mean you agree 100% with everything they say. If 100% agreement were a prerequisite for voting for someone, nobody would ever vote. There has never been a candidate that has held all of my views, and there never will be, because my views are a pretty peculiar mix based on my experiences and exposure to information.

Re: The 2016 Election

#190

Post by michaelbuckbee » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 7:39 PM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #29

lhnz wrote: post #6

> We should all feel a duty to try to understand the roughly > half of the country that thinks we are severely misguided. > I don’t understand how 43% of the country supports Trump. > But I’d like to find out, because we have to include > everyone in our path forward. If our best ideas are to > stop talking to or fire anyone who disagrees with us, > we’ll be facing this whole situation again in 2020. > > That kind of…

Sam tweeted that this was his favorite article about the election: http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-on... It really does a great job of helping explain Trump supporters.

The article (and phrase) I found really helpful in understanding the split in support is:

"The press takes him (Trump)literally, but not seriously; his supporters take him seriously, but not literally."

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/trump-ma...