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Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

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Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#221

Post by sdenton4 »

dsacco wrote: post #142
dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

I agree with the thrust of your point - that organizations like YC should be allowed to uninvite or refuse to collaborate with people they are diametrically opposed to for political reasons. However, I do not agree that it's fair to call an investor's competency into question due to their political views. I agree organizations have every right to not affiliate themselves with those investors, but in the real world th…

Having Thiel on the board is a statement that intolerance based on race, gender, or religion is tolerable by yc. This in turn chills applications from startups working on problems not relating to white western males.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#222

Post by masterponomo »

Looks like Mr. Thiel will have to content himself with being inclusive on his own, or at least not as part of Ms. Pao's exclusionary inclusion organization. Her post made me think of a quote about "all right-thinking people" that I remembered incorrectly as something from (serious) political science, but it turned out to be from Monty Python. Thus discredited, I will not include it here, but will exclude it. Edit: Oh wait, I see that Orwell had a good statement about right-thinking orthodoxy, and Monty Python did an excellent parody of it. http://www.goodreads.com/quotes/499753-at-any-given-moment-t... http://www.montypython.net/scripts/right-think.php

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#223

Post by jowiar »

bcheung wrote: post #186
jowiar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. And this is some seriously oppressing bullshit that has (wittingly or not) prolonged white/male supremacy. People creating a space that makes it very clear that non-white, non-males aren't welcome, then well-meaning "moderates" going along with it because, well, I'm not going to judge him for his politics. It's how…

To take his support of the Republican party to mean that he is against non-white, non-males is dishonest and straw man. If you have some evidence then present it. Thiel is both Libertarian and gay. Clearly he doesn't support everything in Trump and the Republican party.

That wasn't the argument I was making. What I was saying is that a policy of "We will allow people to express their political views free of judgement and consequence" only really works when "political views" is taken to mean "things we're saying about people who aren't in the room".

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#224

Post by aiig »

maratd wrote: post #215
masklinn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. Get off your high horse, Thiel is not going to be destroyed if YC distances itself from him, bloke's got "fuck you money" a hundred times over, nothing could "destroy" him short of institutional assault, and even then possibly not. And you're advocating for tolerating intolerance whose end-result is the destruction…

> Get off your high horse, Thiel is not going to be destroyed if YC distances itself from him This isn't just about Thiel. It's about everyone else too. If you create those sorts of standards, they'll apply to everyone. How would you like it if your boss read your comment and then decided to fire you as a result? That's the kind of society you're creating. > So you're perfectly fine tolerating intolerance but you can…

> Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant.

Not if they call me a "faggot" on the street.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#225

Post by [deleted] »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #172
natrius wrote: post #16

Cleaving off 40% of America is not a recipe for progress. When Trump shows his people how they're getting blacklisted from the economy, that isn't going to make them want to riot less . Our culture of progress has become entirely about excluding dissenters until they submit, and it's not working anymore . We've given up on convincing the people who have all the weapons, and now we're going to start hurting them econo…

This article from an infotainment site is the best write-up I've seen on where a lot of Trump's support comes from. Applies to Duck Dynasty's success as well imho. http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-on... Media and many businesses are excluding and mocking a huge chunk of America. I deal with that chunk on a regular basis. Most are decent, hard-working people with different political views is a…

[deleted]

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#226

Post by braythwayt »

bcheung wrote: post #186
jowiar wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. And this is some seriously oppressing bullshit that has (wittingly or not) prolonged white/male supremacy. People creating a space that makes it very clear that non-white, non-males aren't welcome, then well-meaning "moderates" going along with it because, well, I'm not going to judge him for his politics. It's how…

To take his support of the Republican party to mean that he is against non-white, non-males is dishonest and straw man. If you have some evidence then present it. Thiel is both Libertarian and gay. Clearly he doesn't support everything in Trump and the Republican party.

He may not be explicitly against non-white, non-male, non-gay, non-christian people, but he may be perfectly willing to have them thrown under the bus as long as he gets what he wants.

Some people find that deplorable.

There is a similar dynamic in play with Trump's support from evangelicals. His personal choices are nearly 100% at odds with their social conservatism, but many evangelicals seem ok with this as long as he nominates a judge that will repeal Roe vs. Wade.

Such evangelicals probably aren't really in favour of Trump, but are willing to throw many people under the bus to get what they want as well.

So... I agree that Thiel may not explicitly support everything Trump advocates (who really could), but all the same, it is valid to criticize him for the things he is willing to tolerate to get what he wants.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#227

Post by Alex3917 »

archagon wrote: post #219
Alex3917 wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He is openly calling into doubt the result of this election before it's even happened As we all should, since many/most electronic voting machines don't even have a paper trail. How is it that so many standard liberal positions from five or ten years ago have somehow now become ultra conservative?

Surely you realize how disingenuous this statement is? Trump's mantra of "the media is conspiring against me, the polls are all rigged, the election will be stolen from under us" is a far cry from anything we've seen in previous years. This has nothing to do with electronic voting machines. This is straight FUD in the most primal possible sense.

> This is straight FUD in the most primal possible sense.

Trump may be saying it for the wrong reasons, but he's absolutely right that the integrity of the election is in doubt.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#228

Post by 392c91e8165b »

Not only does Pao expect everyone she works with to agree with her on her Important Concern, but also she expects the Important Concern to override all other potential considerations that might go into a person's decision on whom to support. That is a lot to ask for. There are after all only 2 effective choices.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#229

Post by amyjess »

noobermin wrote: post #166
dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

To be fair, pg does seem quite against Trump personally, at least on twitter he doesn't quite shut up about it. For him to accept Thiel while greatly disliking Trump doesn't really give me the sense that he doesn't care either way. Instead, I feel that he's most likely actively trying to look past Thiel's support. I'm not making a judgement whether to look past it is the right thing, but I don't think pg either is am…

pg left YC two years ago. He no longer has the authority to disinvite Thiel.
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