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Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

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Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#211

Post by hiringmanager »

yuvadam wrote: post #111
mootothemax wrote: post #75

Hang on - Thiel thinks women shouldn't have the right to vote, and has written unambiguously as much? How on earth is that not the argument for dropping him? From another angle, how on earth can you trust someone's advice if they truly and honestly think like that? I'm honestly shocked YC can champion women founders while having someone like this involved as a partner. Just shocking. And so, so disappointing.

> 'the extension of the franchise to women has rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron' https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...

He's saying that women tend not to vote libertarian, not that they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

Why misrepresent this (as so many have in this page) when we can all follow the link and read for ourselves?

More context: " The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.

In the face of these realities, one would despair if one limited one’s horizon to the world of politics. I do not despair because I no longer believe that politics encompasses all possible futures of our world. In our time, the great task for libertarians is to find an escape from politics in all its forms — from the totalitarian and fundamentalist catastrophes to the unthinking demos that guides so-called “social democracy.”

So, he literally says he doesn't despair this.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#212

Post by zzzeek »

Normal_gaussian wrote: post #183
untog wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As an outsider looking in, isn't Hillary's history in advocating hatred and violence? Not really, no. Hillary has made some questionable choices, but I don't think that makes her any more or less "systematically immoral" than Trump - she just has a longer record, because she actually has political experience. For example, both Trump and Clinton were in favor of the Iraq war. Trump got to backpedal and pretend other…

That's an odd side line to take it on. Surely it is much better to consider her history as a whole? As far as I'm aware isn't she quite the supporter of what I am assuming we would both consider fundamentally immoral regimes across the world?

would things go better if the US severed diplomatic relations with countries like Saudi Arabia? Running a country is hard.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#213

Post by untog »

Alex3917 wrote: post #203
untog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, you can even disregard all of Trump's dirty laundry in this calculation. He is openly calling into doubt the result of this election before it's even happened, asking supporters to intimidate voters, and suggesting the entire election is "rigged". He is attempting to undermine democracy in the country and I'm not sure you need a single additional reason to object to anyone who supports him. Thiel, of course, doe…

> He is openly calling into doubt the result of this election before it's even happened As we all should, since many/most electronic voting machines don't even have a paper trail. How is it that so many standard liberal positions from five or ten years ago have somehow now become ultra conservative?

His statements might have some level of validity if he was criticising the use of electronic voting machines. He is not. He is instead suggesting that his supporters go to "other areas" and "see what's going on over there" - if his objection was electronic voting machines then that request would make no sense.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#214

Post by hiringmanager »

wildmusings wrote: post #208

Oh the delicious irony. Let's carry out a purge based on political opinions... in the name of diversity!

There's a real blind spot for SJWs to this kind of irony. They keep making these exact kinds of errors, over and over again, for instance advocating sexism or racism but thinking its ok because of the particular sex or race they choose to discriminate against.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#215

Post by maratd »

masklinn wrote: post #114
maratd wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> To them, supporting Trump and Clinton are equally bad No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. A person should not lose their job, their status on a board, their inclusion in an event, etc. based on who they decide to support politically. That's disgusting and people who support that sort of witch hunt should be ashamed of themselves. I vehemently disagre…

> No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. Get off your high horse, Thiel is not going to be destroyed if YC distances itself from him, bloke's got "fuck you money" a hundred times over, nothing could "destroy" him short of institutional assault, and even then possibly not. And you're advocating for tolerating intolerance whose end-result is the destruction…

> Get off your high horse, Thiel is not going to be destroyed if YC distances itself from him

This isn't just about Thiel. It's about everyone else too. If you create those sorts of standards, they'll apply to everyone.

How would you like it if your boss read your comment and then decided to fire you as a result? That's the kind of society you're creating.

> So you're perfectly fine tolerating intolerance but you can't tolerate the intolerance of intolerance?

Yes. Living in a liberal and free society means tolerating views you find repugnant.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#216

Post by hiringmanager »

ikeboy wrote: post #53
vowelless wrote: post #18

> but we draw a line at individuals who fund violence and hate. (removing video as valid concerns were raised) Although, isn't there evidence that more violence has occurred against trump supporters than anyone else? I am not a supporter by any measure (for one, I'm form the middle east), but I'm trying to understand Paos quote.

>Due to his videos of ACORN workers allegedly aiding a couple in criminal planning, the U.S. Congress voted to freeze funds for the non-profit. The national scandal resulted in the non-profit also losing most private funding before investigations were completed. In March 2010, ACORN was close to bankruptcy and had to close most of its offices.[1] Shortly after, the California State Attorney General's Office and the U…

The fox, having investigated the crime at the hen house, has determined that no foxes did anything wrong and the allegations that hens were harmed is unsupported.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#217

Post by aiig »

maratd wrote: post #48
archagon wrote: post #26

Based on the awful things Trump has said and (apparently) done, it should be blatantly clear to anyone remotely following the election that isn't your usual political rivalry. Pao is right: "this isn’t a disagreement on tax policy, this is advocating hatred and violence." Quite literally at times! (I might give a pass to the people following the party line or acting on incomplete information, but Thiel knows exactly…

> To them, supporting Trump and Clinton are equally bad No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. A person should not lose their job, their status on a board, their inclusion in an event, etc. based on who they decide to support politically. That's disgusting and people who support that sort of witch hunt should be ashamed of themselves. I vehemently disagre…

> A person should not lose their job, their status on a board, their inclusion in an event, etc. based on who they decide to support politically.

Even if you're an active supporter of David Duke? Must we tolerate the (frequently violent) intolerance of others?

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#218

Post by Turing_Machine »

timehastoldme wrote: post #83
hood_syntax wrote: post #23

I am disappointed with Thiel's decision to donate money to Donald Trump, but I don't care what Ellen Pao or her organization thinks about it. It's their prerogative, but I laughed at the tagline 'Sometimes hard decisions aren't that hard after all'. I don't believe an attempt to pressure outside parties into severing business ties with someone because of their questionable political judgement should be treated as if…

Or it's a stand against a movement which opposes their moral principles. To Pao (and, to the extent that it matters, me), D. Trump's movement is so vile that any prominent supporters of it waive their right to being tolerated. I am sure you'd agree that doing so would be acceptable if Thiel supported Strom Thurmond, Viktor Orban, or Mao Zedong; it's just a matter of how bad D. Trump is.

"Strom Thurmond"

How about Hillary Clinton's "friend and mentor", a man of "eloquence and nobility" (her actual words) Robert C. Byrd? You know, "KKK Kleagle" Byrd? "Tried to filibuster the 1964 Civil Rights Act" Byrd? "I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side. ... Rather I should die a thousand times, and see Old Glory trampled in the dirt never to rise again, than to see this beloved land of ours become degraded by race mongrels, a throwback to the blackest specimen from the wilds." Byrd?

Remember him?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryweuBVJMEA

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#219

Post by archagon »

Alex3917 wrote: post #203
untog wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IMO, you can even disregard all of Trump's dirty laundry in this calculation. He is openly calling into doubt the result of this election before it's even happened, asking supporters to intimidate voters, and suggesting the entire election is "rigged". He is attempting to undermine democracy in the country and I'm not sure you need a single additional reason to object to anyone who supports him. Thiel, of course, doe…

> He is openly calling into doubt the result of this election before it's even happened As we all should, since many/most electronic voting machines don't even have a paper trail. How is it that so many standard liberal positions from five or ten years ago have somehow now become ultra conservative?

Surely you realize how disingenuous this statement is? Trump's mantra of "the media is conspiring against me, the polls are all rigged, the election will be stolen from under us" is a far cry from anything we've seen in previous years. This has nothing to do with electronic voting machines. This is straight FUD in the most primal possible sense.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#220

Post by sdenton4 »

dsacco wrote: post #142
dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

I agree with the thrust of your point - that organizations like YC should be allowed to uninvite or refuse to collaborate with people they are diametrically opposed to for political reasons. However, I do not agree that it's fair to call an investor's competency into question due to their political views. I agree organizations have every right to not affiliate themselves with those investors, but in the real world th…

Having Thiel on the board is a statement that intolerance based on race, gender, or religion is tolerable by yc. This in turn chills applications from startups working on problems not relating to white western males.
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