Some serious absolutism on display in this piece. Thiel isn't supporting a fringe candidate; most of the polls right now have a difference between Trump and Clinton smaller than the margin of error. To make the claim that a candidate backed by around 50% of the country is deplorable enough that we should completely divest from his supporters, is silly.
Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
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Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#92Trump is uniquely dangerous and I would fully endorse YC cutting ties with prominent supporters/backers of his...if that would do anything concrete to reduce Trump's chances of winning the presidency, by even one epsilon. I don't Thiel doing office hours for YC companies gives him any sort of tactical advantage he could parlay into assisting Donald Trump's campaign, though I'm willing to entertain arguments otherwise.
It seems more like the argument is that people would like to disassociate with Trump backers as a matter of basic moral principle; that Trump has made himself such a symbol of hatred, racism, xenophobia etc that organizations should shun working with his supporters to send a message that they don't agree with that hatred, racism, and xenophobia. I think that would be quite a reasonable gesture (and I understand why Ellen is trying to do the same thing here). But so is taking public stances against Trump in other forms, including Sam's post re: trump on the YC blog, and his project voteplz.org, a project which, given the lesser likelihood of Democratic-leaning demographic groups to turn out, will probably do orders of magnitude more damage to Trump than Theil's office hours will help him.
I'd like to see more of a focus on what the tech industry can do in the next three weeks to stop Donald Trump from being president, and a little less focus on which companies can prove their moral purity by shunning Trump supporters.
And if we're really doing the latter, isn't going after Palantir, Founders Fund's LPs+ portfolio companies a much more logical place to start? I really hope (and I mean this earnestly, not saying it to make an argument) for the sake of the broader cause of diversity in the tech industry that Project Include is not planning to disassociate with all the companies on this page: http://foundersfund.com/portfolio/
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#93I am disappointed with Thiel's decision to donate money to Donald Trump, but I don't care what Ellen Pao or her organization thinks about it. It's their prerogative, but I laughed at the tagline 'Sometimes hard decisions aren't that hard after all'. I don't believe an attempt to pressure outside parties into severing business ties with someone because of their questionable political judgement should be treated as if…
Out of curiosity: What were your feelings about Brendan Eich?
I wasn't really part of that debate, but I seem to recall that ~everyone~ here and elsewhere called for him to step down.
Then again, cultural differences and nuances especially around potentially offending stances might make this seem more similar a case than people from the US would agree upon - I'm arguing from afar and in a language that is still hard to get right at times.
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#94This would be fine if HRC supporters were also going to be marginalized for advocating the use of drone warfare, warrantless wiretapping, and all the many deeply troubling things about HRC's policy ideas.
While I could never bring myself to vote for Trump or HRC, I am profoundly disappointed that anyone would advocate marginalizing Thiel for simply participating in democracy.
Thiel's donation is a a drop in the bucket. His personal endorsement will likely influence few people. But the chilling effect of not having the "right" beliefs will effect many. Shame on Ellen Pao for advocating this sort of illiberal thinking.
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#95[deleted]
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#96> this isn’t a disagreement on tax policy, this is advocating hatred and violence. There are still around 40% people voting for Trump and many donating to him, so you mean they are also advocating hatred and violence? What you believe could be different from others. People can choose different perspectives to see and understand the world. We should encourage different ideas and voices. This post could be downvoted to…
> There are still around 40% people voting for Trump and many donating to him, so you mean they are also advocating hatred and violence?
At this point, I'd have to say yes, given Trump's actions the past few days. His supporters are openly committing sedition[1]. If you don't believe and hatred and violence, and you still support him, I'd have to say that's a case of superior orders. The man is intentionally inciting fear and violence.
Encouraging different opinions and voices are fine, but there is a limit. When that voice is actively encouraging harm to others based on unfounded allegations, it makes sense to cut it off, as it is not driving the conversation forward.
1- https://www.bostonglobe.com/news/politics/2016/10/15/donald-...
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#97Based on the awful things Trump has said and (apparently) done, it should be blatantly clear to anyone remotely following the election that isn't your usual political rivalry. Pao is right: "this isn’t a disagreement on tax policy, this is advocating hatred and violence." Quite literally at times! (I might give a pass to the people following the party line or acting on incomplete information, but Thiel knows exactly…
> To them, supporting Trump and Clinton are equally bad No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. A person should not lose their job, their status on a board, their inclusion in an event, etc. based on who they decide to support politically. That's disgusting and people who support that sort of witch hunt should be ashamed of themselves. I vehemently disagre…
I don't think YC would be "destroying" Thiel by cutting ties with him as a partner.
And, the argument here is that support of Trump goes a bridge beyond simply expressing disagreeable political views - he is literally encouraging election day violence and trying to delegitimize our Democracy. There has to come a point where toxic and hateful views are no longer tolerated as "political". It is admittedly a slippery slope, but one we're being dragged down whether we like it or not.
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#98> His attacks on Black, Mexican, Asian, Muslim, and Jewish people, on women, and on others are more than just political speech; fueled by hate and encouraging violence, they make each of us feel unsafe. Let's assume that not only is Trump a rapist, but that he's keeping a few women tied up in his basement. Even in this scenario, is this worse than Hillary dramatically increasing weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Qata…
To generalise your point, as a non-USian looking in I'm baffled by the horror that many express towards Mr Trump as a potential President as if he is so much very different from anyone else operating in that stratum. I don't think that anyone able to rise to the top-tier of politics, in any large country, is going to be a 'nice' person. Perhaps not even a 'decent' person. They've had to fight and claw and backstab th…
But they respect the process, and the process is all we have.
He is inciting his followers to voter intimidation at best, and violence at worst, and they are taking the bait. That is a threat to our stability, and that, as many others point out, is what makes him so dangerous.
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#99> The Nazis and white nationalists that have rallied to him are a lost cause.
It's important that we avoid deliberately inflammatory statements like this on controversial issues—they serve only to disrupt already-sensitive threads.
Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions
#100> Diversity and inclusion are hard, especially in tech. Doing them right means agreeing on values
No, it means accepting to disagree on values. Pretty much by definition.
> calling out bad behavior
So creating needless conflict.
> and sometimes firing people
If people are too different from you, fire them! Great for diversity!
I wish these people would have the guts and sincerity to call their agenda what it really is, because diverse, it is not.