Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions • Hacker News Board

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#61

Post by tyre » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

whistlerbrk wrote: post #21

dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

I disagree that opposing SOPA is just political, supporting SOPA threatens innovation which threatens the startup community which in turns threatens YC's bottom line. Therefore opposing SOPA and denying investors access based on their support is a business decision.

There is a strong business case here as well. Thiel alienates a lot of people and his public advocacy for Trump isn't helping.

Silicon Valley already has tremendous diversity issues and a reputation as out-of-touch. If the future of America and the world only gets more diverse, which seems to be the case, then YC has a vested interest in being on the right side of history.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#62

Post by blfr » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

At Project Include, our mission is to give everyone a fair chance to succeed in the workplace. “Everyone” means all groups to us, but we draw a line at individuals who fund violence and hate.

And you denounce... Thiel? Hillary Clinton made material contributions to starting two seemingly random wars in Libya and Syria with hundreds of thousands of victims. That doesn't count as funding violence? What about her supporters which appears to be everyone else.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#63

Post by archagon » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

maratd wrote: post #48

archagon wrote: post #26

Based on the awful things Trump has said and (apparently) done, it should be blatantly clear to anyone remotely following the election that isn't your usual political rivalry. Pao is right: "this isn’t a disagreement on tax policy, this is advocating hatred and violence." Quite literally at times! (I might give a pass to the people following the party line or acting on incomplete information, but Thiel knows exactly…

> To them, supporting Trump and Clinton are equally bad No, to us destroying a person for their political views is disgusting, even if we disagree with them. A person should not lose their job, their status on a board, their inclusion in an event, etc. based on who they decide to support politically. That's disgusting and people who support that sort of witch hunt should be ashamed of themselves. I vehemently disagre…

In a normal political climate I would agree, but I have to ask: is there a line? Is there any line? I think most people could imagine a political affiliation that they would want absolutely no association with. If Trump was a bit more murdery like Duterte, would it be OK to disavow his supporters then?

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#64

Post by sawthat » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:02 PM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #10

> His attacks on Black, Mexican, Asian, Muslim, and Jewish people, on women, and on others are more than just political speech; fueled by hate and encouraging violence, they make each of us feel unsafe. Let's assume that not only is Trump a rapist, but that he's keeping a few women tied up in his basement. Even in this scenario, is this worse than Hillary dramatically increasing weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Qata…

I don't think that's what anyone is arguing. People are arguing that Donald Trump is an existential threat to the american republic, not that he would be "bad for minorities". The racist thing is bad, but really only a small part of the overall badness of Donald Trump.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#65

Post by untog » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

supergeek133 wrote: post #49

archagon wrote: post #26

Based on the awful things Trump has said and (apparently) done, it should be blatantly clear to anyone remotely following the election that isn't your usual political rivalry. Pao is right: "this isn’t a disagreement on tax policy, this is advocating hatred and violence." Quite literally at times! (I might give a pass to the people following the party line or acting on incomplete information, but Thiel knows exactly…

Not to mention "single issue voting" has become a huge trend in this country. Do you know any friends who are LGBT who will vote democrat just because of gay rights, but on any other day of the week are fiscally conservative? I'm sure there are more than one of those people voting for Trump because of some issue they disagree with Hillary on, or some single issue they disagree with Trump on.

What you're describing seems only natural to me. Very few people sit entirely within the spectrum of one of the two parties - they have to evaluate both and see which has the most pluses. If you're gay, the Republican party is threatening your ability to get married and live without discrimination, so I can believe that might seem more important than relatively minor shifts in economic policy.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#66

Post by mkagenius » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

sparkling wrote: post #27

Alex3917 wrote: post #10

> His attacks on Black, Mexican, Asian, Muslim, and Jewish people, on women, and on others are more than just political speech; fueled by hate and encouraging violence, they make each of us feel unsafe. Let's assume that not only is Trump a rapist, but that he's keeping a few women tied up in his basement. Even in this scenario, is this worse than Hillary dramatically increasing weapons sales to Saudi Arabia and Qata…

I agree. The key here is: Trump says mean things, Hillary does mean things (and has been doing so for nearly 30 years) Also, the external links in that sentence you quoted are not hard facts. They are up for interpretation. Especially the one about his speech being anti-semitic is nothing but pure nonsense. /edit: downvote me all you want. I'm not even voting for Trump, but the media bias towards Trump is real.

> Trump says mean things, Hillary does mean things

ah! he just says eh?

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#67

Post by notJim » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #16

Cleaving off 40% of America is not a recipe for progress. When Trump shows his people how they're getting blacklisted from the economy, that isn't going to make them want to riot less . Our culture of progress has become entirely about excluding dissenters until they submit, and it's not working anymore . We've given up on convincing the people who have all the weapons, and now we're going to start hurting them econo…

I think the point is that there's no way you can win over hardcore Trump supporters. The Nazis and white nationalists that have rallied to him are a lost cause.

The point is to show the much larger group of people who are just going along with him, or considering it that this violent, racist, misogynist set of behaviors and beliefs is not acceptable.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#68

Post by _23sd » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

dfabulich wrote: post #9

There is clear precedent for YC taking a political stand by uninviting investors. Only five years ago, Paul Graham was willing to uninvite investors from Demo Day based on their support for the Stop Online Piracy Act (SOPA). https://techcrunch.com/2011/12/22/paul-graham-sopa-supportin... Paul asked, "If these companies are so clueless about technology that they think SOPA is a good idea, how could they be good invest…

Interesting. There might be (of course will be) disagreement about whether, as Pao argues, unpopular views about race and gender and stuff are as relevant to tech as support for SOPA. But Trump's new habit of not just implying, but saying outright that the election will be stolen from him by a nationwide ballot stuffing conspiracy is certainly relevant. That rhetoric is dangerous to the transition process and could destabilize the national environment for YC and its companies.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#69

Post by archagon » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

lhnz wrote: post #55

archagon wrote: post #26

Based on the awful things Trump has said and (apparently) done, it should be blatantly clear to anyone remotely following the election that isn't your usual political rivalry. Pao is right: "this isn’t a disagreement on tax policy, this is advocating hatred and violence." Quite literally at times! (I might give a pass to the people following the party line or acting on incomplete information, but Thiel knows exactly…

There is literally a photo of Putin in the top-right header of that page. Insanely conspiratorial and reminiscent of the cold war.

Having seen (and laughed at) these kinds of conspiratorial-looking posts in previous elections on the Republican side, I would normally completely agree with you — except most of these links are to things that Trump or his allies have actually, literally said. Page decoration or not, it's impossible to deny that.

Re: Peter Thiel, YC, and hard decisions

#70

Post by Delmania » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 6:03 PM UTC

ikeboy wrote: post #22

Tl;dr >We agree that people shouldn’t be fired for their political views, but

The problem is that this election is not about a difference of opinions over the fundamental issues. It's become a spite-driven, rage-fueled, all out fear mongering and hate breeding spectacle.

Trump's supporters have, in some cases, started talking open revolt if he doesn't win. On Twitter, there was a hashtag of #RepealThe19th, which essentially said they wanted to disenfranchise women in efforts to ensure Trump is supported.

This isn't necessarily new from constituents, but at the very least, the candidates have drawn the line. McCain is reported to have told a woman than Obama is good Christian family man with whom he had fundamental policy disagreements.

Trump is threatening to throw Hillary in jail, and is attempting to use her husbands (known) indiscretions as ammunition. Campaigns get vicious, but in this case, Trump is actively feeding the hatred and paranoia.