Why We're Living in the Age of Fear • Hacker News Board

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#81

Post by legulere » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:23 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #63

jacquesm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our government, in the last 8 years, used remotely operated drones to carry out extrajudicial killings of American citizens -- including a teenage boy. Not my government, but still I can't help but wonder why it should matter that they are American citizens. A very large multiple of citizens of other countries is murdered in this way and from where I'm sitting I don't see much difference between the two.

One reason it matters is because our Constitution explicitly grants citizens (not foreigners) certain rights. Our government is not allowed to violate those rights and if they do, they can technically be held accountable. The government can do shady things to outsiders within the constraints of the Constitution. As long as our government is honoring the Constitution, we have some hope of fixing its problems/flaws. If…

The problem is not adherence to some constitution (especially the American constitution which contains quite some arbitrary and outdated things), but basic human rights. A constitution can be a legal framework for basic human rights, but many are pretty bad at that and the US has actively decided to not honor human rights (not accepting rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court, etc.)

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#82

Post by guard-of-terra » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:25 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #80

guard-of-terra wrote: post #12

Well maybe we should stop backing people into a corner then? For example, why don't back down on immigration? Instead, it sounds like "we're not listening to your concerns, rightful or not, your opinion won't affect how things are done". Hard to imagine how this treatment won't lead to panic attacks. Actually, countries definitely become harder and harder on immigration but there's a failure to project these changes…

There is no "back down" on immigration, because immigration is already pretty heavily restricted. There's no way for bystanders to check someone's immigration status, so when you see someone complaining about "too many immigrants", some of the people they're complaining about are actually nationals who've been around for years. And there's no way of getting rid of them, short of violence. We've already seen this kind…

> And there's no way of getting rid of them, short of violence.

And that's where people become really-really cautious about immigration. You can't really change your mind later - after a few years your undesirable neo-compatriot can't be got rid of. It's irreversible. People fear irreversible decisions and don't trust politicians on those.

So the only shot you have is not letting people in at all. Even if it means turning down honest good people.

If you want to make people more immigration friendly, figure out how to track and deport existing immigrants when things go wrong. Not just tell other people what to think.

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#83

Post by jacquesm » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:26 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #63

jacquesm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our government, in the last 8 years, used remotely operated drones to carry out extrajudicial killings of American citizens -- including a teenage boy. Not my government, but still I can't help but wonder why it should matter that they are American citizens. A very large multiple of citizens of other countries is murdered in this way and from where I'm sitting I don't see much difference between the two.

One reason it matters is because our Constitution explicitly grants citizens (not foreigners) certain rights. Our government is not allowed to violate those rights and if they do, they can technically be held accountable. The government can do shady things to outsiders within the constraints of the Constitution. As long as our government is honoring the Constitution, we have some hope of fixing its problems/flaws. If…

I don't give a fuck about the constitution of a country I don't live in but I too have rights.

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#84

Post by matt_wulfeck » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:27 PM UTC

legulere wrote: post #81

tossaway1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason it matters is because our Constitution explicitly grants citizens (not foreigners) certain rights. Our government is not allowed to violate those rights and if they do, they can technically be held accountable. The government can do shady things to outsiders within the constraints of the Constitution. As long as our government is honoring the Constitution, we have some hope of fixing its problems/flaws. If…

The problem is not adherence to some constitution (especially the American constitution which contains quite some arbitrary and outdated things), but basic human rights. A constitution can be a legal framework for basic human rights, but many are pretty bad at that and the US has actively decided to not honor human rights (not accepting rulings of the International Court of Justice, the International Criminal Court,…

What things are outdated? It's a document that outlines the principles of separation of powers and the role of government.

I think it is still very much relevant. Even if it was rewritten how would it be improved? Wouldn't we end up with the same principles just maybe worded differently?

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#85

Post by oarsinsync » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:30 PM UTC

kazagistar wrote: post #41

Gruselbauer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no feasible way for me to agree more with this. I very much belong to those negatively affected by this phenomenon. I'd wager many a HN commenter is. My RSS feeds are a carefully crafted web of information, as much of a not-echo chamber I can create. From stuff I don't agree with on almost anything - Breitbart and its national counterparts, neocon blogs, libertarian thinktanks - to sources I think of as pret…

I came to the conclusion that the impact I can have on the world is dwarfed by the suffering that keeping up with news causes me; thus, I crafted the opposite type of echo chamber, excluding most news sources. I am much happier now, and can focus on where I feel I can have real positive impact, like our industry.

Can you also share the sources you use, to share that alternative approach?

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#86

Post by cylinder » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:31 PM UTC

Gruselbauer wrote: post #25

cel1ne wrote: post #9

We live in the age of fear because the hose of information that floods us is constantly opened further: Letters → Telegram → Telephone → Radio → TV → Internet → Mobile Internet. Human beings need time to manage their emotions. Time spent waiting. Time being bored. Time when NO new information, not even positive, is arriving. We are constantly distracted and thus increasingly unable to sort out our feelings. That is t…

There is no feasible way for me to agree more with this. I very much belong to those negatively affected by this phenomenon. I'd wager many a HN commenter is. My RSS feeds are a carefully crafted web of information, as much of a not-echo chamber I can create. From stuff I don't agree with on almost anything - Breitbart and its national counterparts, neocon blogs, libertarian thinktanks - to sources I think of as pret…

I'm the same, but don't have quite an RSS feed. Are you able to share a list of your subscriptions?

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#87

Post by oarsinsync » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:32 PM UTC

wu-ikkyu wrote: post #52

Gruselbauer wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no feasible way for me to agree more with this. I very much belong to those negatively affected by this phenomenon. I'd wager many a HN commenter is. My RSS feeds are a carefully crafted web of information, as much of a not-echo chamber I can create. From stuff I don't agree with on almost anything - Breitbart and its national counterparts, neocon blogs, libertarian thinktanks - to sources I think of as pret…

What practical use do you get out of reading "news" such as: >Breitbart and its national counterparts, neocon blogs, libertarian thinktanks - to sources I think of as pretty neutral - like the simple feeds of press conglomerates just feeding headlines... If you are feeling such crippling despair from consuming this information, why are you consuming it (Assuming you're not a sadist.)? Especially when you said yoursel…

If you don't understand the opposing viewpoint, you can't discuss it with those that agree with it. You're reduced to "no, you're wrong", which is the same viewpoint they have.

Sticking to places that are skewed towards a similar bias as yourself doesn't help you understand those that have differing views to you. It can be especially important to be able to do this when those people are in your family, in order to keep your family together, rather than letting those viewpoints tear you apart.

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#88

Post by losteverything » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

Just stop watching tv and listening to radio. Cold turkey. I quit on 2011.

We need campaigns like the "quit smoking" or "keep america beautiful" (anti trash): no tv and no radio

I always intended to write a summary on my transition from media junkie to my present state.

I don't need to know about a person I have never met or a place I will never go. BUT with the internet I can (on my terms) find out about said person or said place when I need to.

If something is important, a friend or family member will tell me.

Some irony I think: educatable people spend their working lives building retirement plans and associating with like minded others. Then once they no longer work they are in front of a tv (or worse have the TV on all the time at home) watching less minded and less educated and less sophisicated people.

Watching tv is going back in the progress you made building your life. Why on earth would a college educated person watch talk-tv? Its like undoing your entire education.

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#89

Post by MichaelRenor » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

blaze33 wrote: post #79

tossaway1 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One reason it matters is because our Constitution explicitly grants citizens (not foreigners) certain rights. Our government is not allowed to violate those rights and if they do, they can technically be held accountable. The government can do shady things to outsiders within the constraints of the Constitution. As long as our government is honoring the Constitution, we have some hope of fixing its problems/flaws. If…

There's still this thing called the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that says "Everyone has the right to life, liberty and security of person". The United States voted for it in 1948.

And does it have any teeth? What happens when governments break it?

At least in the United States there's a clear solution to the American government breaking the constitution, and that's an armed revolt as a last resort and a finally new government (but not necessarily new constitution).

I'm absolutely not suggesting Americans do this. it's a just a consequence outlined both in history and the constitution.

Re: Why We're Living in the Age of Fear

#90

Post by pyrale » Mon, Oct 17, 2016, 3:33 PM UTC

tossaway1 wrote: post #63

jacquesm wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Our government, in the last 8 years, used remotely operated drones to carry out extrajudicial killings of American citizens -- including a teenage boy. Not my government, but still I can't help but wonder why it should matter that they are American citizens. A very large multiple of citizens of other countries is murdered in this way and from where I'm sitting I don't see much difference between the two.

One reason it matters is because our Constitution explicitly grants citizens (not foreigners) certain rights. Our government is not allowed to violate those rights and if they do, they can technically be held accountable. The government can do shady things to outsiders within the constraints of the Constitution. As long as our government is honoring the Constitution, we have some hope of fixing its problems/flaws. If…

> The government can do shady things to outsiders within the constraints of the Constitution.

I wonder how many of the problems american citizen currently have can be linked to their disregard for foreign citizen' rights