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WTF is a container?

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Re: WTF is a container?

#91

Post by ptman »

Leynos wrote: post #64
nvarsj wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Docker is a poorly engineered and over-hyped technology. The concept is great - and in fact, many companies have built great tooling around Linux cgroups. It lets you efficiently binpack applications on a single server - which is why 'containers' were created in the first place. The side benefit of letting you define your OS libraries, and other things, is a nice bonus, and way overblown in my opinion. Docker and its…

Deletion from registry v2 is definitely supported now. It's just a total PITA, and took them a while to implement. But I got my disc space back, so I'm not complaining. :P

Any pointers?

Re: WTF is a container?

#92

Post by vacri »

parito wrote: post #39
flukus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any examples of what LXC does better than docker? I'm very new to the whole containerization thing but I've already come across a couple of the issues you've mentioned.

Shameless copypaste from well written piece by Flockport: Docker restricts the container to a single process only. The default docker baseimage OS template is not designed to support multiple applications, processes or services like init, cron, syslog, ssh etc. As we saw earlier this introduces a certain amount of complexity for day to day usage scenarios. Since current architectures, applications and services are de…

> Docker restricts the container to a single process only.

No, there is only a single process treated as init in the container, but you can spawn off multiple child processes.

> The default docker baseimage OS template is not designed to support multiple applications, processes or services like init, cron, syslog, ssh etc.

If you want init, cron, syslog, ssh, and your app(s) all rolled up into one, you want a VM, not a container.

Re: WTF is a container?

#93

Post by haalcion3 »

dragonsh wrote: post #85
dancek wrote: post #5

I agree that containers (both for shipping and servers) are a great idea. And because I'm tired of always configuring servers, I decided to give it a try some time ago. I wrapped my IRC client (weechat + glowing-bear) in a Docker container. Oh, not a container though, because I also needed https, which meant I needed either a mechanism to build and update letsencrypt certs in the weird format that weechat expects, or…

Containers!=docker, I think if you used lxd container, your experience might have been different as they work like virtual machine. I am using lxd in production and it has been a pleasure with live migration, snapshots and good old configuration management using ansible.

And, as probably everyone knows, Google runs everything in containers and has been using containers for a decade:

http://www.nextplatform.com/2016/03/22/decade-container-cont...

Docker may be flawed, but containers aren't. If you need some enterprise leader to tell you this instead, here are some Gartner posts showing this is the way:

VMs may be well established and "magic quadrant", but they are also on decline, and containers make better use of hardware/resources:

http://www.informationweek.com/cloud/infrastructure-as-a-ser...

It's important what you use to roll out containers and requires forethought:

https://www.gartner.com/doc/3267118/containers-change-data-c...

Re: WTF is a container?

#94

Post by akavel »

IshKebab wrote: post #88
Hondor wrote: post #62

I never quite understood containers and this article makes them seem kind of similar to what OSs already do. How is a container different from just installing all the dependencies along with an application? Coming from a Windows background, this is pretty common to avoid DLL hell. Nobody distributes a Windows application that requires the user to go and install some 3rd party library before it'll work. Isolation from…

You are correct. The issue they really fix is that it is extremely difficult to actually distribute all dependencies along with an app on Linux. If you link with glibc they you are screwed. There are starting to be ways around glibc, like muscl. And Go doesn't even use a C standard library at all - there's no way you can say that Docker is easier than just copying a single statically linked binary around. But I guess…

Another solution to dependencies distribution is NixOS.

Re: WTF is a container?

#95

Post by [deleted] »

Philipp__ wrote: post #83
vacri wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you download a BSD Jail image from an application's website, and have it 'just work'?

No, but I do not see how it is related to my comment. Read more carefully. I didn't say that Jails and Zones did everything that Docker did, yeah DockerHub is cool and I gave them credits for that.

[deleted]

Re: WTF is a container?

#96

Post by fyolnish »

Philipp__ wrote: post #83
vacri wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you download a BSD Jail image from an application's website, and have it 'just work'?

No, but I do not see how it is related to my comment. Read more carefully. I didn't say that Jails and Zones did everything that Docker did, yeah DockerHub is cool and I gave them credits for that.

Federation credits?

Re: WTF is a container?

#97

Post by mirekrusin »

BjoernKW wrote: post #76

Containers are often touted is this novel concept that's bound to revolutionise software development and software delivery in particular. The general idea isn't all that new however. Java Applications have been delivered as containers since 1995 (although the concept isn't explicitly named that way with Java applications). Each JAR / WAR is a self-contained application that can run anywhere where there's a JVM (which…

JAR/WAR general idea is not that new as well, we had CPAN before!

Re: WTF is a container?

#98

Post by chewxy »

This is not quite related to Docker/Kubernetes, but a phrase in the article triggered memories about a very good book that I think everyone should read - The Box by Marc Levinson. It really is a fascinating book.

Re: WTF is a container?

#99

Post by pm90 »

haalcion3 wrote: post #93
dragonsh wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Containers!=docker, I think if you used lxd container, your experience might have been different as they work like virtual machine. I am using lxd in production and it has been a pleasure with live migration, snapshots and good old configuration management using ansible.

And, as probably everyone knows, Google runs everything in containers and has been using containers for a decade: http://www.nextplatform.com/2016/03/22/decade-container-cont... Docker may be flawed, but containers aren't. If you need some enterprise leader to tell you this instead, here are some Gartner posts showing this is the way: VMs may be well established and "magic quadrant", but they are also on decline, and…

What really surprises me about Google is why they don't open source some of these great core technologies (MapReduce, Containers etc.) instead of publishing theory as academic papers. On the one hand, it may be a great way of promoting the creating of these tools from the ground up, inspired by the theory alone. On the other hand, Google's invaluable experience with using these technologies probably means their versions are more stable, faster, resilient etc.

Re: WTF is a container?

#100

Post by haalcion3 »

chewxy wrote: post #98

This is not quite related to Docker/Kubernetes, but a phrase in the article triggered memories about a very good book that I think everyone should read - The Box by Marc Levinson. It really is a fascinating book.

Definitely "not quite", as it is about shipping containers, but an interesting read.
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