Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

forbes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 190 posts

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#151

Post by lambertsimnel »

metafunctor wrote: post #68
eternalban wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put this in its political context. We are citizens of a constitutional republic . A republic, as far as I understand it, implies that a (thoughtful, responsible, .., elected) minority is afforded the delegated power to legislate, judge, and administer. The 'actual problem' seems to be in the selection/delegation process. The minority that is currently in charge has framed the question as that of "safety and sec…

This. The free press is not objective, or benevolent, or ethical. Yes, parts of it may have started that way, but today's free press is merely free, in that it can and will say anything, within legal bounds. It ends up saying whatever gets the most eyeballs. We need a better way to disseminate factual information to the public. Sadly, I have no idea how to do that.

Some donor-funded news sources are quite good.

https://theconversation.com/ has African, Australian, French, UK, US and global versions (but the African, US and global editions seem not to be donor-funded), Creative Commons licensing, and no advertising (but it does have sponsors).

I wonder how it would cope with a billion readers.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#152

Post by lisper »

eternalban wrote: post #142
lisper wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But I am not blaming the system. You wrote: > The 'actual problem' seems to be in the selection/delegation process. That sounds like blaming the system to me.

Problem "in", not problem "is". (In case you're interested, Pierre Sallinger touches on the post '72 role of the media in the selection process in his 1995 c-span interview: https://www.c-span.org/video/?67372-1/ps-memoir [edit: jump to 44:56])

That seems like splitting a pretty fine hair to me.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#153

Post by rimantas »

politekc wrote: post #54
kabdib wrote: post #30

Duress fingerprints. 'nuff said. Or a configurable timeout, rather than the apparently hard-coded 48 hours. Or ask for a PIN if the phone's radio detects many more other radios in the vicinity than a few minutes ago ("Because you might be under duress, please enter a PIN now.") Or if a phone has been sitting on a flat surface for a while, require a PIN. Or require a PIN if the phone is tapped with a duress code ("Sha…

Touch ID is set to require a passcode after five failed attempts, One could use an unregistered finger or knuckle to intentionally fail the five attempts and force a passcode requirement.

Also timeout is 8 hours on iPhone, not 48.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#154

Post by ljf »

sib wrote: post #82
ljf wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Really? Never heard of that in the UK or when travelling in Europe, but I could be wrong. Do you have any links to more information on this?

This, for example: https://wiki.openrightsgroup.org/wiki/Regulation_of_Investig...

I don't see this being used by border guards or police in the street though which is what the parent was alluding to.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#155

Post by glasz »

nickpsecurity wrote: post #97
mirimir wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. So just don't keep anything sensitive on the phone. Whenever crossing borders or otherwise subject to search and seizure, carry blank devices. Access sensitive stuff from secure online repositories.

Exactly. I'd even do locally-sourced hardware if the device ever leaves my site or they plug anything into it. Download the data via a VPN to be stored in an encrypted container. Upload and wipe it when you're done for your next round back. Not as much trouble as one would think if you use easy disk encryption, VPN, and syncing. I don't have an up-to-date recommendation on what combo to use, though.

yeah. while the two of you deal with stupid workarounds that work for only you, i'll rather try and fix the issue.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#156

Post by dkersten »

yardie wrote: post #87
candiodari wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you travel ? In much if not all of Europe not giving your password, even to a random search when passing through (not entering the country), is a crime. Therefore legal advice is to provide custom agents and other police with access to any device upon request and then.

Yes, I travel a lot. Over 50 countries, 25 in the last 2 years as part of my sabbatical. Sadly, I disagree. If I'm in a foreign country and I want legal advice I'll ask the local bar (or equivalent) about my rights. I'm simply not going to unlock my phone or incriminate myself just on the word of law enforcement. I don't do anything criminal, this is about respect. If they feel I have done something wrong it's for th…

You arrive in a foreign country. You get stopped by police and asked to unlock your phone. You're worried you will miss your connecting flight/train/bus/whatever.

How will you contact the local bar equivalent in this situation?

Even without the time pressure of a connecting flight, you're not exactly going to tell the police "hang on, wait until I google to see who I should contact, and then let me give them a call. Then I will see if I will comply with your order or not"

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#157

Post by delegate »

One solution is to configure a finger which, when scanned, erases the phone. Or maybe the finger triggers a 'enter unlock pin' dialog - with a secret code that erases all data.. Not sure if you can do that from an app - probably no - so Apple should step in here...

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#158

Post by shostack »

crooked-v wrote: post #12

I have to wonder what sort of technical measures could be implemented to make biometric systems as legally secure as passwords while still retaining something like the same convenience. The first thing that comes to mind for me is the Apple patent on recognizing a fingerprint anywhere on the phone's surface, and using that in combination with Android-style lock screen patterns. A lock screen pattern isn't nearly as s…

Somewhat different convenience level, but you could introduce a mode where the fingerprint unlock only works for certain content and other content is behind a password.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#159

Post by ChoHag »

countingteeth wrote: post #148
eternalban wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reading this from the Forbes article: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3143273/Mass-Fing... Relevant bits start at page 5 (III - LEGAL DISCUSSION). Compelling a person to provide his or her fingerprint does not implicate, let alone violate, the Fifth Amendment. "[B]oth federal and state courts have usually held that [the Fifth Amendment] offers no protection against compulsion to submit to fingerprinting."…

The fingerprint is not communicative. That's the crux of the matter. The state of law, currently, is that if the police have you, and they have your phone, and they have probable cause that your phone contains evidence of a crime, they can compel you to press fingers to the phone. It's no different, really, then that they can force you to press your fingers onto a sheet of paper for booking during an arrest, or to ta…

"If it's something you have, it can be taken off you"

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#160

Post by ljf »

candiodari wrote: post #127
metafunctor wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call BS. Do you have any sources to back up this claim?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Key_disclosure_law#Legislation...

That does not apply to what you described: >not giving your password, even to a random search

These reference what can be requested/forced during court proceedings. Do you have any examples that support the statement you made?

Post reply on HN