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Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

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141–150 of 190 posts

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#141
post #85

This is one reason I've always wanted to have two separate authentication credentials for one user. Unfortunately, I've yet to find an acceptable or easy way to implement that on any device that would need it (your phone, your laptop, any device which you want to keep stuff private). For example: have one authentication method that unlocks the device to the typical desktop environment, command line, or whatever -- ju…

What about a 'distress' password that unlocks the device to a benign but plausible state?

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#142
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irony is that by blaming the system instead of acknowledging that the outcomes we see are the result of democracy working exactly as intended you are actually contributing to the problem, which is that everyone retreats into their echo chamber and spends their energy vilifying anyone who doesn't agree with them instead of working constructively to figure out how all 7+ billion of us are going to get along on th…

> But I am not blaming the system. You wrote: > The 'actual problem' seems to be in the selection/delegation process. That sounds like blaming the system to me.

Problem "in", not problem "is".

(In case you're interested, Pierre Sallinger touches on the post '72 role of the media in the selection process in his 1995 c-span interview: https://www.c-span.org/video/?67372-1/ps-memoir [edit: jump to 44:56])

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#143
post #90
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a thief won't go through an unlocked phone they stole? Even if they don't, the person they fence it to will.

I think whatever is on your phone would be of little or no interest to either party.

Thieves sell the phone on to people who know how to exploit what is on your phone to try to get access to your accounts and money.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly. It is a form of identification not authentication.

I heard fingerprints described as "Authentication, not authorisation", which I think is a better description of the role they play (on the iPhone, at least), and the role they should play. They authenticate who you are, they aren't trivial to fake. However, they shouldn't authorise access to a device on their own. Your fingerprint works as a somewhat more secure, medium term swipe-to-unlock for your phone.

Careful, authentication / authorization have specific definitions in software development which are at odds with what you say. A username/password together would be authentication.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#146
post #90
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You think a thief won't go through an unlocked phone they stole? Even if they don't, the person they fence it to will.

I think whatever is on your phone would be of little or no interest to either party.

Even the dumbest thief has a smartphone and knows it can contain information at least as valuable as the phone itself, and maybe even nudie pics.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#147
post #2

Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce. Really though, this descent into a police state is such a pathetic outcome for this country. Dangerous, scary, and tragic, but also... pathetic. This is what happens when a sizeable majority don't even participate in the electoral…

Alternative idea:intentionally register someone else's fingerprints on your phone - so when the cops arrive and find a phone lying on the couch you can plausibly say "not mine, here try my finger on it!" ;-) (Anybody got ready access to med school cadavers with the fingerprints intact?)

I really wish you could set up functionality for each finger. Index unlocks, but thumb instantly wipes the phone.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#148
post #2

Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce. Really though, this descent into a police state is such a pathetic outcome for this country. Dangerous, scary, and tragic, but also... pathetic. This is what happens when a sizeable majority don't even participate in the electoral…

Reading this from the Forbes article: https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/3143273/Mass-Fing... Relevant bits start at page 5 (III - LEGAL DISCUSSION). Compelling a person to provide his or her fingerprint does not implicate, let alone violate, the Fifth Amendment. "[B]oth federal and state courts have usually held that [the Fifth Amendment] offers no protection against compulsion to submit to fingerprinting."…

The fingerprint is not communicative. That's the crux of the matter. The state of law, currently, is that if the police have you, and they have your phone, and they have probable cause that your phone contains evidence of a crime, they can compel you to press fingers to the phone.

It's no different, really, then that they can force you to press your fingers onto a sheet of paper for booking during an arrest, or to take a buccal swab.

What they apparently cannot do is force you to admit what if any finger of your would unlock the phone. Apparently some people use tricks like locking the phone with a knuckle or even the tip of their nose (that one sounds comical). Really though, it goes to show that the good old fashioned memorized password has not gone out of style. Any biometric or dongle-based authentication or encryption can be circumvented by legal process.

And in a civil matter, judges and parties have even more power. Ultimately, if a court is convinced that you know a password and are not properly invoking a 5th amendment privilege against criminal self-incrimination, you could be held in contempt (fined daily, or jailed) until you provided the password or the password-protected materials. At this point it could well become a battle of wills and proofs, which the contemnor may well lose.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The irony is that by blaming the system instead of acknowledging that the outcomes we see are the result of democracy working exactly as intended you are actually contributing to the problem, which is that everyone retreats into their echo chamber and spends their energy vilifying anyone who doesn't agree with them instead of working constructively to figure out how all 7+ billion of us are going to get along on th…

Wagging fingers is one of the more boring forms of political discourse, and no matter how unacceptable you find an opinion, you will never finger-wag someone out of one.

You are wagging fingers also, and therefore boring.

Honestly, I've been finger-wagged out of an opinion or two, so "never" is too strong. Frankly, I challenge you to name any form of "political discourse" that regularly changes opinions. In my experience political discourse in general rarely accomplishes anything other than preach to the choir and cause opponents to dig in.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#150
post #2

Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce. Really though, this descent into a police state is such a pathetic outcome for this country. Dangerous, scary, and tragic, but also... pathetic. This is what happens when a sizeable majority don't even participate in the electoral…

> Just another reason to forgo the convenience of biometrics in favor of a password/phrase that exists only in your mind. At least for now, that's something you can't be compelled to produce.

Unless by rubber hose cryptanalysis. Still better than being compelled to produce one's finger, though ;)

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