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Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

forbes.com

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Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#71

Post by roel_v »

adventured wrote: post #17
rhizome wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep. I got into a little argument with my brother over this last week, as he is a "I don't care, I have nothing to hide."

My favorite fast response to disarm that is always: that's not up to you [whether or not you have something to hide]. I've found it instantly shakes the false comfort they're trying to derive from their premise and opens up a moment of rethink.

Not for me, I don't even understand your point. Of course it's up to me if I have something to hide. I have nothing on my phone that I wouldn't be perfectly OK with to have printed and displayed in a busy public place. How is it not up to me to decide what details of my life I have to hide?

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#72

Post by wiml »

helthanatos wrote: post #8
kyled wrote: post #4

Not a fan of solely using fingerprints for authentication. Good systems allow you to rotate keys. I only got 10 fingerprints.

Good passkeys also should only exist to be checked on the device. Fingerprints can be in databases and on the device itself. Not sure how fingerprint scanners react to replicated fingerprints, but the right people can probably replicate them pretty well. I would only consider a fingerprint a more secure authentication measure because it can't be recorded by cameras.

> the right people can probably replicate them pretty well

They can be fooled reasonably well (well enough to fool an iphone) with pretty simple techniques. For details, search for a bunch of articles from 2002 referencing Tsutomu Matsumoto's work.

> it can't be recorded by cameras

Well... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2014/12/29/german_minister_fing... https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12611155

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#74

Post by P4u1 »

dimino wrote: post #69

Just turn off your phones, can't unlock Android, at least, without the code, after startup.

I was going to say the same thing. Likewise for iOS. Not that I have anything to hide, but if I didn't want to comply in such a situation, I would turn my phone off, game over.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#75

Post by dmoy »

lambertsimnel wrote: post #67
eternalban wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's put this in its political context. We are citizens of a constitutional republic . A republic, as far as I understand it, implies that a (thoughtful, responsible, .., elected) minority is afforded the delegated power to legislate, judge, and administer. The 'actual problem' seems to be in the selection/delegation process. The minority that is currently in charge has framed the question as that of "safety and sec…

The current voting system doesn't help. A national popular vote for president under IRV and proportional representation for Congress are necessary parts of the solution.

irv would be nice, but I feel like campaign finance reform would help more.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#76

Post by M_Grey »

tedunangst wrote: post #65
M_Grey wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How many people lock their phones against burglary?

One. Me.

Huh... why? I mean, burglars and hackers are usually very different people, and the former usually doesn't care about what's on your phone, just your phone. I grant however, that you could have a particular situation perhaps relating to your work which might alter that.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#77

Post by morganvachon »

roel_v wrote: post #70
yardie wrote: post #10

This is why my unlock is not tied to biometrics. Once I realized the government can compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant using your fingerprint it became a much less compelling feature. The same for facial recognition.

From a glance at your profile, you hardly seem to be a person a government would be interested in (maybe you're a drug king pin in your off hours, don't tell me if you are). What is your threat profile? If you loose your phone and some kid racks up a few hundreds $ in whatever one can buy through a phone nowadays, is that threat worth less to you than the convenience of fingerprint phone locking? Why would you give u…

> From a glance at your profile, you hardly seem to be a person a government would be interested in

He may not be someone the government is interested in right now, but as is clear in the case we all are discussing, the government is on a fishing expedition, seeking to unlock a non-suspect's phone in the hopes of making a suspect out of them. That's some 1980s USSR shit right there, and it's disheartening that our government is trying to become what they once fought against. They can get a warrant first, or they can get bent.

To put it another way, you don't want your neighbor poking around in your garage looking for something she can report to the fire marshal "just because", even though you're pretty sure there's nothing she can call out, so you keep your garage locked.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#78

Post by tomohawk »

This seems more like a 4th amendment issue. It's great that they got a warrant, but the warrant is unbelievably broad. I can't imagine a similar one enabling law enforcement officers to conduct strip / body cavity searches of everyone in the building. Or, allowing the officers to search all of the vehicles in the parking lot.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#79

Post by KJP191 »

M_Grey wrote: post #76
tedunangst wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One. Me.

Huh... why? I mean, burglars and hackers are usually very different people, and the former usually doesn't care about what's on your phone, just your phone. I grant however, that you could have a particular situation perhaps relating to your work which might alter that.

You think a thief won't go through an unlocked phone they stole? Even if they don't, the person they fence it to will.

Re: Feds Walk into a Building and Demand Everyone's Fingerprints to Open Phones

#80

Post by delinka »

roel_v wrote: post #70
yardie wrote: post #10

This is why my unlock is not tied to biometrics. Once I realized the government can compel you to unlock your phone without a warrant using your fingerprint it became a much less compelling feature. The same for facial recognition.

From a glance at your profile, you hardly seem to be a person a government would be interested in (maybe you're a drug king pin in your off hours, don't tell me if you are). What is your threat profile? If you loose your phone and some kid racks up a few hundreds $ in whatever one can buy through a phone nowadays, is that threat worth less to you than the convenience of fingerprint phone locking? Why would you give u…

"...you hardly seem to be a person a government would be interested in..."

"If you've got nothing to hide..." - right?

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