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Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

theguardian.com

41–46 of 46 posts

Re: Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

#41
post #17

Hmmm. It's not like installing the charging points later is terribly difficult or expensive compared to the cost of the cars themselves, so long as there's a suitable garage or parking space. Are they outlawing new homes and home refurbishments without garages or similar suitable for electric cars? That'd be quite some subsidy for the car industry.

Any jurisdiction that requires off street parking to be associated with buildings (which is nearly universal in the US) could be said to be similarly subsidizing the auto industry. To me, the reason to consider requiring a car charging station is not really related to cars but to the history of after the fact electrical installations which to be safe must be done right and doing it right takes time (to hire qualified…

> I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in new residential construction and renovation.

Since it's a charging point, wouldn't it be more similar to "each bedroom should have at least N power sockets per square meter"? I believe a rule like that already exists, requiring something like "at least N electric vehicle charging sockets per square meter of garage" sounds like a natural extension of it.

That said, I'd like to read that draft directive, and see what it actually says.

Re: Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

#42
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any jurisdiction that requires off street parking to be associated with buildings (which is nearly universal in the US) could be said to be similarly subsidizing the auto industry. To me, the reason to consider requiring a car charging station is not really related to cars but to the history of after the fact electrical installations which to be safe must be done right and doing it right takes time (to hire qualified…

> I look at it as parallel to requiring circuit breakers rather than fuses in new residential construction and renovation. Since it's a charging point, wouldn't it be more similar to "each bedroom should have at least N power sockets per square meter"? I believe a rule like that already exists, requiring something like "at least N electric vehicle charging sockets per square meter of garage" sounds like a natural ext…

To me, there's really no philosophical difference between receptacles in the bedroom and the prohibition on fuseboxes. Receptacles in bedrooms are to reduce life safety hazards from the use of extension cords when receptacles are lacking as the requirement for circuit breakers reduces the life safety hazard from using coins when replacement fuses are lacking.

Incidentally, the US centric NEC also requires bedroom circuits to be protected from arc faults in new/upgraded installations. This is typically achieved with breakers in the breaker box.

Re: Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

#43
post #18
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I feel that people owning their own car won't be a thing Why is this such a big fantasy among leftists?

It's a very rational thing to do if you live in an urban area. Individual owned cars spend most of the time parking taking precious space inside cities. Car sharing combined with non-shitty public transport to also reduce moving traffic could make cities a place for humans again, not a place for cars like it's now. I also prefer not to own car as an individual (if not necessary because of lacking infrastructure). It'…

> It's a very rational thing to do if you live in an urban area. ... I also prefer not to own car as an individual

I'm at this point in life too, so I didn't really say "everyone should own a car".

A free market includes the freedom to choose the Uber option (given that someone is offering that choice), and private provision of a good means supply is likely to match demand. I'm not against car-sharing - but in the utopian, /r/futurology sort of version of it I sense there are undertones of thinking we'll all be "free" when it's all communal and we don't have property and ownership, plus there's that whole zero-sum view of wealth and prosperity thing.

This "communism will be great when it's Star Trek-type communism" thing is fabulous propaganda. It might not be deliberate or conspiratorial, so propaganda might not be the best word, but that's nearly worse in a way.

Re: Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

#44
post #7
post #3

Does anyone have link to original sources? Most houses in EU already have "charging point", it is called electric plug. 25A/380V plugs are pretty common: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_and_multiphase_powe... But electric grids in western countries (Germany, UK) are absolutely not ready for such thing. German power grid would collapse if Czechia and Poland started enforcing their safety regulations. This reg…

> 25A/380V plugs are pretty common Not in homes.

At least in Germany every single house or apartment has an electric connection with a power output of at least 120A/380V (you're always connected to all 3 phases). Hooking up an 25A/380V plug shouldn't be a big deal.

Re: Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

#45

This seems shortsighted. We're on the verge of changing the car ownership model with driverless cars & legislators are stuck creating laws that will create an unnecessary burden in 5-8 years (yet they'll likely stay on the books for decades). Ultimately it is central planning at its worst. A great example of why decisions should be driven by the market, not "I know what's best for everyone" politicians.

Driverless cars to become standard in 5-8 years? I'd bet against that, never mind the car ownership model.

Re: Plans for an electric car charging point in every new home in Europe

#46
post #44
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 25A/380V plugs are pretty common Not in homes.

At least in Germany every single house or apartment has an electric connection with a power output of at least 120A/380V (you're always connected to all 3 phases). Hooking up an 25A/380V plug shouldn't be a big deal.

But that's the point -- we know they have the capacity going into the houses, they just don't currently have the actual connection.

> Hooking up an 25A/380V plug shouldn't be a big deal.

For a forum that's obsessed with A/B testing the colour of eg the signup button it's odd to see people saying this. Of course it's not hard, but it is friction, and people avoid friction. If we want people to take up electric vehicles (and in the UK, particularly London, we really do to undo some of the catastrophic decisions around promoting diesel) we want to make electric vehicles easy to own.

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