The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't • Hacker News Board

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#161

Post by logicallee » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 6:19 PM UTC

braythwayt wrote: post #151

> And those Berliners who just can’t let the party end can carry on at _eine Afterhour_ until well after the sun comes up. In Toronto’s nightlife, there were definitely establishments referred to in English as “After Hours’.” In the days when liquor could not be served after 1am in Ontario, such places purported to serve only espresso and soft drinks, but there was nearly always some kind of nudge-nudge-wink-wink way…

it was quoted as an afterhour - singular! so your anecdote kind of reinforces the story, of being almost, but not quite English. :)

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#162

Post by xg15 » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 6:35 PM UTC

fenomas wrote: post #140

xg15 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of couriosity, how do they describe green eyes then? or do they have a separate word that only means green?

Yep - it's "midori". I'm no expert but according to wikipedia it all stems from a time when Japanese had only four color names (red, white, black and "ao"), whereas other more specific names came later.

Ah, that makes sense. Thank you.

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#163

Post by xg15 » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 6:42 PM UTC

jrockway wrote: post #27

ivarious wrote: post #9

And then there's the whole business of Wasei-Eigo, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasei-eigo .

My favorite is "anime"; things went full circle and we got our borrowed word back!

Actually, I'm curious about that. I understand that "anime" in japan is a blanket term for all kinds of drawn animation, including western-style - so the meaning is more similar to US "cartoon" or german "Zeichentrick".

But given that the distinct japanese style of animation and storytelling (what the west knows as "anime") has spawned a whole industry and subculture and has become part of japan's image in the world, it would seem to me to be too important to not give it a distinct name. So I wonder, is there a different term in japanese for it?

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#164

Post by f137 » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 6:53 PM UTC

Well, "face control" in Russian has nothing to do with beauty of the people entering a club. The aim of "face control" is to make sure that no people that might possibly cause some trouble, or unable to pay, get into a nightclub or the like.

Not sure if explanations of the words from other languages are similarly misleading.

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#165

Post by xg15 » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 6:57 PM UTC

taejo wrote: post #145

pluma wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any German diminutive names but there are cases where the "short form" is distinctly different from the long form as in English "Bob" vs "Robert" or "Dick" vs "Richard". E.g. "Jupp" is short for "Joseph" and "Kalle" is short for "Karl" (or variants like "Karl-Heinz").

The name Gretchen is a fairly ordinary English name, but it looks like it was originally a German diminutive of Greta/Grete? Which are themselves nicknames for Margarete.

From what I know, it's Gretel. But both the name as well as the -el diminutive form are so long of style that they're practically not used anymore.

I think they have been popular in the generation of (and before) WW2 and Nazi Germany - though I don't know if there is actually a causal chain to the name vanishing.

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#166

Post by villedespommes » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 7:19 PM UTC

allendoerfer wrote: post #88

villedespommes wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what we really like to do is to append a bunch of affectionate diminutive suffixes to English common and proper nouns. It's just soooo entertaining. You can do it all day. Here's a few examples: Mr. Obama (Обама) -> Obamushka (Обамушка) Mr. Trump (Трамп) -> Trumpuoshechka (Трампушечка) My personal favorite: Okay (Окэй) -> Okaayshki (Океюшки) If you curious you can fire up Google Translate and make it say all these wo…

Do you use them to make fun of them or just to make the words sound nice? I think Russian makes heavy use of diminutives, doesn't it? I worked somewhere where two women were called Natalia and Natasha and I am still confused what their actual name were, because Natasha seems to be the diminutive form of Natalia and sometimes Natasha called Natalia "Natasha". I do not think that there are any German names which are th…

"Natalia" would be the name she'd use in official documents like a birth certificate or passport.

"Natasha" is a less formal form of "Natalia". It's indeed a diminutive but I wouldn't call it an affectionate diminutive like "Robert -> Billy". If I'm good friends with "Natalia" I'd probably call her "Natasha".

If you drop the last "a", "Natash" sounds more affectionate.

If you are a 5yo and a neighbour girl from a house across the street hit you with a toy shovel in the head you would probably come back running to your mom/dad, "Mom, Dad "Natashka" ("Natka") hit me with a shovel! She's baaaaaaadddd" :-)

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#167

Post by villedespommes » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 7:27 PM UTC

adamzochowski wrote: post #159

pluma wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any German diminutive names but there are cases where the "short form" is distinctly different from the long form as in English "Bob" vs "Robert" or "Dick" vs "Richard". E.g. "Jupp" is short for "Joseph" and "Kalle" is short for "Karl" (or variants like "Karl-Heinz").

But it isn't "Bob" to "Robert". You skipped middle step, and one final step. First names were shortened. Robert to Rob Richard to Rich William to Will Then the shortened version had first letter replaced to make second diminutive form Rob to Bob Rich to Dick Will to Bill Finally you have third diminutive form, by adding ending Bob to Bobby Dick to Dicky Bill to Billy

Russians do this to common nouns too. The short forms of the common nouns are less "common" (sorry for the tautology) in every day speech in English. Exceptions like mommy, daddy, granny, breakie, aside, of course.

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#168

Post by pluma » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 7:43 PM UTC

weinzierl wrote: post #157

pluma wrote: post #118

The article mentions the "Association for the German Language", which seems to refer to the prescriptivist "Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache". It's important to understand that few Germans are even aware it exists and its conservative views are extremely unpopular and non-standard. Even the Council for German Orthography which regulates German orthography as taught in schools only has two Association representatives…

> Complaining about "Elektronik" not meaning "electronics": moderate actual nazi Fellow German native speaker here: Elektronik means electronics, doesn't it? At least dict.leo.org and the Oxford German Dictionary (which came with my Mac) seem to say it does. Elektronik | elɛkˈtroːnɪk | Fem. Elektronik 1 electronics sing., no art. 2 (Bestandteile) electronic parts pl. electronics pl. Your other examples are spot on, s…

Yeah, Elektronik is a direct loan from English electronics.

The language nazis are complaining we already have the word Elektrik for that because in German that apparently includes what is colloquially called Elektronik.

It's mostly an argument based on word origins (i.e. they say Elektronik would have to be similar to Mechatronik in that it would specifically refer to electronic motors and such rather than typical consumer electronics).

Of course Elektronik does have a distinct meaning separate from Elektrik and the entire argument is based on a simplistic understanding of how human language works.

But like many of the more outlandish arguments this boils down to "foreign words are corrupting our Germanic language and ultimately destroying our culture" -- which of course is insane.

The entire "Germanize the German language" idea was pretty popular in the Nazi era, btw, giving rise to many failed word creations as well as a few that stuck around (I think "Bürgersteig" successfully replaced the French loan word "Trottoir").

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#169

Post by villedespommes » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 7:46 PM UTC

seszett wrote: post #72

villedespommes wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my two cents. I took a couple of French classes in Canada and I can vouch that those guys don't mess around; they are like French vocab nazis :-P so it's always "la fin de la semaine" and "courriel electronique". In contrast, one of my friends is "French" French. She got no issues saying "le weekend" or "e-mail." When the French lost to the british in 177x-ish, people of Quebec were left to fend for themselves. They…

> it's always "la fin de la semaine" and "courriel electronique". In contrast, one of my friends is "French" French. She got no issues saying "le weekend" or "e-mail." But on the other hand, your Québec friend will tell you that you can "plugger" your "laptop", he has "checké" that there is a "plug" that is "loose" on the nearby "powerstrip". I lived there for a bit more than a year, and I'm pretty sure they use at l…

Unfortunately, I wouldn't know :-( I lived in Ontario where people mostly spoke English. A couple buddies of mine were from Quebec. When they spoke French they would never use an anglicism. I suspect they were making a conscious effort to not to. I did say this in my reply above that expats do tend to get very protective of the use of their native language (present company included). Similarly, when they spoke English, you wouldn't know that they were from Quebec since they spoke in an Ontarian accent and used the exact same vocab you expect a native Torontotian to use. For example, they could say to me, could you close the lights please. "Close the lights" is a very common expression in Ontario and yet I've never heard anybody using it beyond that province.

Lol, I always felt jealous of them. They would just blend in with the crowd. In contrast, I have a very pronounced accent in English and don't even get me started on my French.

Re: The foreign words that seem like English, but aren't

#170

Post by pluma » Sun, Oct 16, 2016, 7:47 PM UTC

code_sardaukar wrote: post #158

pluma wrote: post #118

The article mentions the "Association for the German Language", which seems to refer to the prescriptivist "Gesellschaft für deutsche Sprache". It's important to understand that few Germans are even aware it exists and its conservative views are extremely unpopular and non-standard. Even the Council for German Orthography which regulates German orthography as taught in schools only has two Association representatives…

Just to clarify, you think that opposing immigration makes someone a nazi?

No, just like the language lawyering it's neither necessary nor sufficient, but the term is of course a bit fuzzy anyway.

I guess "xenophobic asshole" is a more accurate term but I thought "nazi" conveys enough meaning without resorting on language Americans might find offensive.