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Re: undefined

#511

Post by jerkstate »

golemotron wrote: post #392
DominikR wrote: post #338

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in Austria, it was a disgrace. All of media was attacking the right wing guy with no dissenting voices, and you have to be afraid of personal and professional consequences if you endorse him or say anything against the Socialist candidate they are trying to push. It's literally like in the Soviet Union, at least that's what my parents told me as they came from a Communist country.

Just like the US this year. This is not an exaggeration. Many people would have professional and personal consequences for supporting Trump in public. People like Peter Thiel and Scott Adams have enough money to not care. Scott isn't even endorsing him and he says that his speaking engagements have dried up. We may see a big difference between the polling and the election results this year. The Shy Tory Effect came t…

You can't even present facts in a way that feels to liberals like defending Trump without facing social consequences (this is what Adams is guilty of.) I had several problems with friends explaining positions taken by both candidates during the debates and discussing the legality of what's known publicly about Trump's tax returns. Discussion of any of those topics will agglomerate the liberal view of Trump as racist, sexist, xenophobic, and stupid, and project them onto you.

Personally I think both candidates are awful, but suggesting that Trump might be right about something or Clinton might be wrong is social suicide on Facebook (for example) and I wouldn't dare discuss it at work.

Re: undefined

#512

Post by kingmanaz »

curiousgeorgio wrote: post #239

It looks like a lot of people here don't understand how someone could possibly support Trump. If I were simply following the mainstream media's narrative, I'd be in a similar position. If you're really interested in trying to understand a viewpoint that differs from your own (which I believe is healthy for anyone, even if you don't plan on changing your views), I would suggest beginning by listening to Stefan Molyneu…

Here's a surprisingly fair attempt at understanding red-state Trump supporters from blue-state voter:

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-on...

Re: undefined

#513

Post by davemel37 »

md_ wrote: post #247
davemel37 wrote: post #238

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is definitely the case...but he doesnt even need the new audience or the new venture. His entire empire is built on a name that is getting billions in free press. The worst thing to happen to a famous brand is not bad press but rather becoming irrelevant and falling out of discussion. Even if the Trump political brand crashes and burns, the broader trump brand of success and money just gets stronger... This elec…

I don't buy this. What was the cost--in brand, but also in actual revenue--to losing his role in The Apprentice, losing the Macy's sales, the Miss Universe thing, etc? I expect the backlash has had real consequences. No doubt starting a cable network is a good fallback position, but I don't buy the idea that this is all according to plan. More likely, some in his campaign know he's going to lose and are looking for a…

I don't think you can make judgement calls from short term things like the examples you gave.

His brand recognition is way up throughout the world and my experience tells me that the negative view will not translate into his business brands once his political brand is not front and center.

Re: undefined

#514

Post by untilHellbanned »

tvural wrote: post #264

Thiel might have ulterior motives, but his support of Trump is not too surprising if you've listened to his other ideas. He feels that the political agenda has been overrun by distractions, like "who can use which bathroom", at the expense of real problems, like the stagnation of median wages over the last forty years. He prefers the days when the national conversation was about how to beat the Soviets, and sees the…

I'm all for it but Trump isn't the guy to lead the change. He has no record of success and treats all humans terribly.

If Somebody with a similar mindset on the business matters minus the catastrophic interpersonal issues runs in the future I'll happily elect them.

Re: undefined

#515

Post by jsprogrammer »

tenpies wrote: post #507
jsprogrammer wrote: post #467

I wonder what his thoughts are about Trump nonconsensually groping women? A libertarian could not support such violence/coercion. [Edit: wow, off-topic?]

I haven't kept up, but have any of the accusations been proven yet? Last I checked they were all allegations.

There are many accusations that Trump engaged in the behavior he voluntarily described himself behaving in.

I don't think that matters though. He is already on the record encouraging (and bragging about) coercion; it is completely antithetical to libertarianism.

Re: undefined

#516

Post by SomeStupidPoint »

icebraining wrote: post #484
SomeStupidPoint wrote: post #454

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point isn't contained to the present system: Even in theory, libertarians are hypocrites because they fundamentally advocate for failing to pay for the externalities of their coercive system, and all supposed benefits of libertarianism can be traced to temporary boosts caused by (inefficient) capitalization of that failure to pay for externalities. Libertarianism enriches a few by creating 0.9 units wealth for eve…

Is there any economical system you disagree with but don't consider dishonest?

Sure, lots of them. Now, many of them are still hypocrites, in that very often a model will claim to address something as a top priority, but not actually address it. (Ed: not a hypocrite to propose a model that doesn't work out; hypocrite to continue to claim it will work when errors are discovered or it can't help, even in theory.) Which is why I called Libertarians so -- they bark about externalities when their model is fundamentally about not being accountable for externalities of coercing others to obey your model.

However, the dishonesty of American Libertarians stems from something further than that. Namely, American Libertarians are neo-feudalists in practice, but won't own up to being neo-feudalists.

I find this to be dishonest: they, so far as I can tell, have done this purely because they want to advocate neo-feudalism and its benefits without having to justify the benefits in terms of the costs, so they use terminology where it's harder to find the costs in academic literature and deny that any such costs exist. Nothing different than creationism rebranding as "intelligent design" or anti-abortion as "pro-life".

Re: undefined

#517

Post by rayiner »

ting_bu_dung wrote: post #486
rayiner wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, because this election has come down to a dichotomy between Hilary and an actual cartoon villain, it'll be bad for the democratic party. It'll ensure the entrenchment of the conservative "think of the children" "just say no" wing of the party for another decade or more.

you mean the decline of the republican party and the entrenchment of angry white uneducated men for the next 10 years? It's already in the cards.

Trump is not going to win, so complaining about angry white men is pretty pointless.

Re: undefined

#518

Post by [deleted] »

ting_bu_dung wrote: post #486
rayiner wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a way, because this election has come down to a dichotomy between Hilary and an actual cartoon villain, it'll be bad for the democratic party. It'll ensure the entrenchment of the conservative "think of the children" "just say no" wing of the party for another decade or more.

you mean the decline of the republican party and the entrenchment of angry white uneducated men for the next 10 years? It's already in the cards.

[deleted]

Re: undefined

#519

Post by 2AF3 »

fmihaila wrote: post #497
2AF3 wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm in fantasy land? If you think the polls aren't manipulated for political advantage you are in fantasy land. You're appeal to 'real scientific data' is childish, since the data can be easy manipulated.

And yet, Trump supporters never had any trouble believing the polls when they showed their candidate leading during the primaries. Every single time, Trump would open his rallies with "have you seen the latest polls?". When the polls show him to be ahead, it's evidence that the voters love him. When he's behind, it's evidence that the polling is rigged.

Hillary Lead Over Trump Surges After Reuters "Tweaks" Poll http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-30/clinton-lead-over-t...

Re: undefined

#520

Post by allendoerfer »

DominikR wrote: post #470
allendoerfer wrote: post #371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> German people in specific are culturally one of least capable in understanding what freedom actually means. In the 20th century we had an emperor, started two world wars, had a weak democracy in between, then had two dictatorships exactly exposing each other and were the most important puppet state for two opposing world powers and ideologies. The freedom team not only won but overtook many other free nations again…

> The freedom team not only won but overtook many other free nations again The German "freedom team" did nothing of value, it was the US that won or more precise the Soviet Union that imploded because it was unfeasible from the beginning. West Germany was a powerless Satellite state just as East Germany was. > I think if you have freedom or democracy related questions you should ask us. We would suggest to get your a…

>The German "freedom team" did nothing of value, it was the US that won or more precise the Soviet Union that imploded because it was unfeasible from the beginning. West Germany was a powerless Satellite state just as East Germany was.

Exactly what I said in my comment. West Germany was the "Klassenfeind" of the East, it won economically in a way, which was literally called a "Wirtschaftswunder". The East then made a peaceful revolution leading up to the Euro and the expansion of the EU.

>>> I think if you have freedom or democracy related questions you should ask us. We would suggest to get your act with your agencies together.

> ???

I am saying that the US agencies are undemocratic and much more problematic than functioning social systems would be.

> You want your slaves to cooperate, which is easier to accomplish when you're not beating them up on a daily basis.

It is always easier to govern a country, whether you are democratically elected or not, if you have a functioning system. I would not count this as a reason to not have a functioning social systems. It is also easier to govern if the people are not starving, that does not mean that a starving population is more free.

>> Hitler did not wait for generations to let social systems brainwash the people, he had the thugs of the SA to beat the crap out of the opposition.

> That's not how it was historically. He did not use massive violence to get into power (he got there fair and square in a democratic manner), but he encouraged it to get rid of the Jews once he was in power.

I never said that he beat the people to get in power, I only said he used the SA to beat up the opposition on the street, which is exactly how it historically was.

> Or do you want to argue with me that the Hitlerjugend had no real effect on the youth? Children started to report their parents if they said something against their dear leader.

Sure. But why are you talking about this? A Hitlerjugend is something different than public infrastructure like a functioning healthcare system we were originally talking about. As soon as the left proposes a Hitlerjugend I would advise you to vote for the other candidate.

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