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Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
91–100 of 207 posts
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#92I am a native English speaker, age 39. I am learning Mandarin right now.
1. I am taking classes at my local college.
2. I am paying an instructor outside of class to accelerate my reading and writing.
3. I have started making myself write my everyday things in Mandarin. I.e my day planner. Notes. Grocery list.
4. I goto places where there are other Mandarin speakers and just start conversations.
5. If I want to say or write something and I don't know how I look it up on the spot.
6. I try to read websites in Mandarin
7. I make time to study every day
8. I ordered books from China in Mandarin to. Read.
It would be great to go learn in China but it isn't an option for me.
Edit: I forgot. YouTube videos
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#93Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can I ask respectfully what you mean by fluent? Only because...the textbook definition and the colloquial definition differ. I think generally when people say 'fluent' they mean 'native speaker level at reading, writing and speaking language X', whereas fluent actually means you can speak without hesitation on a range of topics. Just a clarification, not an attack! Edit: Plus, I wouldn't knock wordlists. I started tr…
I also have a problem with the word "fluent". Ok you say you're fluent, here's a simple self-check: Explain to someone in the language you claim to be fluent in how you'd go about making a fire without any matches. (hint: you need to use words like tinder, kindling, flint, etc.). If you can't do this, or grapple with the fact that you don't have a repertoire of these words in your vocabulary, you might want to recons…
> Explain to someone in the language you claim to be fluent in how you'd go about making a fire without any matches. (hint: you need to use words like tinder, kindling, flint, etc.)
I wouldn't be able to do this in my own native language (aside from "stone" and "stick", I'm clueless about the tools involved), let alone in a foreign one. I think this is way too specific to be a good test for fluency.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#94I think the guy from fluentforever has the general pattern down correctly: 1) learn phonetics and pronunciation 2) learn a base of of the most common words (he has a list of 625 words, I think wikipedias "simple english" word requirements would be another good source). Do this with anki. 3) start studying grammar 4) move onto native materials (while continuing with anki) I also think that most people massively underr…
Totally agree on vocabulary, it's by far the most important part. You can mostly understand and be understood without grammar.
I pick comic books in the target language, that I've already read in my native language, and start making word lists. Comic books are cool because obviously the pictures help, and the story will follow a theme, so the same words will come back over and over again. And they're not so long as to feel like you'll never make it through. Motivation is the #1 predictor of successful learning, and the apps have never appealed to me as much as reading a good story.
I'll suggest that schools teach grammar mostly because it makes for a much more "academic" lesson than teaching vocabulary. You don't need school to learn vocabulary.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#95I'm fluent in German, English. I'm living in Japan and am almost fluent in Japanese and quarter fluent in Korean. I also recently started Hungarian and Spanish. The most important part in my opinion is to live in a country that speaks the language you want to learn. You have to immerse yourself as much as possible with the culture and language. Also very important that you aren't afraid to try to use what you learned…
Can I ask respectfully what you mean by fluent? Only because...the textbook definition and the colloquial definition differ. I think generally when people say 'fluent' they mean 'native speaker level at reading, writing and speaking language X', whereas fluent actually means you can speak without hesitation on a range of topics. Just a clarification, not an attack! Edit: Plus, I wouldn't knock wordlists. I started tr…
One test of fluency would be to have the person watch a modern film in the language of interest and ask them to transcribe the dialogue into text and also describe in own words (in language of interest) what is going on in the movie.
You can then put that person on a scale from 0 to 100 by comparing the score by a random sample of "known" native speakers.
This test is nice because it probes many aspects of language: listening, speaking, and writing (but not reading), which can vary greatly between people.
If you're interested in probing reading, then I suggest asking the person to explain meanings of songs or poems.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#96Check out some polyglots on youtube. Some of them keep learning new languages and they have good advice.
I can share my experience learning Spanish (at 40). I practiced every single day for 6 months using a variety of resources. Apps, grammar references, (online) dictionaries, personal teacher, news websites... I think what is important is not so much what resources you use, but the time you put in. You need to find a way to stay motivated for a long period of time, that's the hard part.
How well can I speak after 6 months? Well, I went through most of the grammar of the language, I can communicate (with someone willing to speak slowly), I can read the news but I have a hard time understanding people speaking at a normal pace. Overall, starting from zero, I'm rather satisfied but I expected to be better than that after 6 months (esp. considering French is my first language). It's harder than what I thought.
I stopped learning a few months ago and I'm afraid I'll forget everything pretty fast. Unlike English, I'm not exposed to the Spanish language.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#97I think the guy from fluentforever has the general pattern down correctly: 1) learn phonetics and pronunciation 2) learn a base of of the most common words (he has a list of 625 words, I think wikipedias "simple english" word requirements would be another good source). Do this with anki. 3) start studying grammar 4) move onto native materials (while continuing with anki) I also think that most people massively underr…
And don't forget:
5) Go out and talk to people that speak the language (don't be afraid to make mistakes)
6) Or, if 5) is not an option, watch television shows in that language. Can be anything you like, simple comedy works best for me.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#98I've been teaching myself French (from scratch) for the past two years. I read nearly as well as I do in English, and I listen well (some slangy television dialogue is still a bit tough).
Some things that have worked for me:
0. Goes without saying, but consistent effort. I've done at least a little French every day for the past two years.
1. Reading a lot. I started with the Harry Potters and now read for pleasure pretty much exclusively in French.
2. Reading on a Kindle. Instant dictionary lookup! This is such a big efficiency boost that I think that reading physical books is simply a mistake.
3. Listening a lot. I listen to about an hour of French podcasts/youtube channels a day.
4. Studying grammar. I mainly study grammar when I run into something tricky while reading, but I really do study.
5. Flashcards. I've only started making them in the past month or so, but yes, they really do work. I feel silly for not realizing that sooner. I highlight interesting words/expressions as I read and periodically dump them onto index cards.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#99Most of the people will struggle if they do not think in a given language. I often spoke with people saying they are "fluent". But they weren't and they could not think in English besides small problems. Once you learn to think in a given language - most likely you have became bilingual.
Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?
#100I listened to a lot of Youtube videos and songs in the language. The biggest impediment to language learning is that it can be extremely boring. If you're learning it through entertaining content, it gets easier.
On http://lyricstranslate.com/, you can find songs translated from and to a lot of different languages. It's a lot easier to remember words when it comes with contextual markers: music, it's place in a line of lyric.