What about me? (I'm young but feel old from all the js-framework-of-the-week/pico-services(a service for every non-constant value) /docker-in-kubernetes-in-vm/golang mumbo-jumbo)
I'm 113 in web-dev years.
Are those like dog years?
Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
41–50 of 76 posts
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#42Serious question: are you trolling? I hire programmers for a startup. When I do, we do not care at all how old you are. We care about attitude, skills, and aptitude.
In the past I've acted very deliberately to hire older and more experienced developers; an act specifically designed as a counter to a streak of egregious and dangerous naivete which was running a very real risk of killing our product.
Same experience here, hiring more experienced (generally older) developers works out better sometimes.. Who would have guessed?
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#43Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#44Probably not as old (white?) male. But there is a simple way to increase your diversity. You could start identifying as a woman, it is just a verbal identification, no other changes are required. This way you would also become lesbian. In some countries you can legally change your race, by religious conversion (Sikht in UK). Again, religion is just a verbal identification.
That's some cartman-level trolling. It's of course not my job to distinguish true and false trans people ("no true Scotsman") but if you're a stereotypical male in all senses, it makes very little sense to use that label. (Disclosure, genderqueer trans woman here)
I am serious.
There is no such thing as "stereotypical male in all senses", everyone is gender-fluid . Most men were called a "pussy" or "not a real man" at some point.
People come from different backgrounds. In my country people often changed their religion or race, not doing so would bring unpleasant consequences. For example my parents become atheists to get a decent jobs. Some people are also distracted by feeding family.
"Being diverse" is simply just another job requirement for some people.
I personally spend one year at military outpost in mountains. I would be very happy to give-up my "male privilege", and wear tutu with tiara on public for that year. Work visa in US would be similar case...
As trans woman I would be outraged, that I am treated as lesser woman (exclusion from sport events, included in Selective Service, exclusion from women's prisons...). Not that more people choose to identify as trans.
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#45Serious question: are you trolling? I hire programmers for a startup. When I do, we do not care at all how old you are. We care about attitude, skills, and aptitude.
That's nice to hear. However, based on my personal experience, I'm not entirely convinced. When I hired programmers for a startup, I'm pretty sure that I had a unconscious bias towards young candidates, which was at the time justified by the blanket word "attitude" (or "cultural fit"). Now, I'm not claiming that you (or anyone specifically) have the same bias, but I'm pretty sure that I wasn't the only one. You may b…
> justified by the blanket word "attitude"
I really wish people wouldn't hide behind cultural fit as justification. A number doesn't reveal attitude. I'm past 50, but I haven't yet started to aspire to being being middle aged, and have no slippers, cardigans or golf clubs. If given a choice I'll take many a young startup or company over a similar sized company of people my age.
When I look at people my age, I'd guess less than a third have settled into some form of middle age, and those are the friends I've tended to lose touch with. Of the rest, well we probably all-night party a little less, have a few extra commitments, and the kids are a bit older. We all seem to get on with people in their 20s and 30s far easier than my parent's generation did.
If attitude is a euphemism for "won't work extra hours and weekends almost constantly", then yeah. Though I gained that attitude in my 20s six months into my second or third job.
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
Question from overseas: what's a "protected class"?
This refers to a category of person protected by the Civil Rights Act of 1964[1], Title VII, as extended by other laws over time. It "prohibits discrimination by covered employers on the basis of race, color, religion, sex or national origin". Those of age 40+ years are covered specifically by the "Age Discrimination in Employment Act of 1967". In other words, "age of 40 or more years" is a "protected class". [1]: ht…
I'm curious as to whether these laws make a positive difference in practice.
If someone is truly racist/sexist/ageist then they could probably invent a lawful excuse for their hiring behaviour anyway. On the other hand, if they are rational then (a) they would already benefit from hiring these workers cheaply because the demand is lower, so they would win in the market, and (b) the discrimination laws would increase the expected cost due to the increased potential for lawsuits.
It reminds me of the recent Linux discussion about how lawsuits are poisonous to the community and cause companies to avoid participating. [1]
Does anyone have any empirical data on the actual outcomes of these laws?
[1] https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/ksummit-discuss/...
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#47Probably not as old (white?) male. But there is a simple way to increase your diversity. You could start identifying as a woman, it is just a verbal identification, no other changes are required. This way you would also become lesbian. In some countries you can legally change your race, by religious conversion (Sikht in UK). Again, religion is just a verbal identification.
That's some cartman-level trolling. It's of course not my job to distinguish true and false trans people ("no true Scotsman") but if you're a stereotypical male in all senses, it makes very little sense to use that label. (Disclosure, genderqueer trans woman here)
Have a look at the comments in a Guardian article on trans-gender issues. Many of them say pretty much what the OP did.
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#48Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#49What about me? (I'm young but feel old from all the js-framework-of-the-week/pico-services(a service for every non-constant value) /docker-in-kubernetes-in-vm/golang mumbo-jumbo)
I empathize, we are migrating from flat systemd services to containers/kubernetes because its the new thing. I don't understand change for change sake is somewhat annoying and pointless.
Reading through articles and comments on micro services I can't help but think the same. Much of it seems to be moving complexity from the application layer to the ops layer.
Re: Ask HN: I'm an old programmer, do I qualify for diversity consideration?
#50No, diversity is doublespeak for women or black people.
Doublethink, newspeak. (If you're referencing 1984)