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Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

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Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#61
I speak 2 foreign languages fluently, one of them is English, in which I got fluent by watching shows over the years (mainly Star Trek series and The Simpsons) with and without subtitles (first translated, then original English), and by reading a lot. Hard to say how many years it took, since I was a kid back then, but I got fluent enough to move to and study at the University level in the UK.

The other story is I got a girlfriend speaking the other foreign language (Slovak). We speak English and her language (foreign for me) interchangeably. We also lived in her country for some time. Time we spent speaking, listening and reading her language made me fluent. No special tricks, courses, apps...

Just practice, asking questions and learning. I got fluent in about a year, but bare in mind, Slovak and Polish (my native) share a common root, so it wouldn't have been as easy with something like Chinese or even French.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#62

Do you have some resources to learn a not so common language like Danish?

I had a Danish girlfriend for a couple of years who spoke perfect English, so we didn't practice very much unless we wanted to talk about something without other people knowing (that's to expensive, let's go, etc). I got pretty far in Danish with the "Teach Yourself" course. The problem is that some of the lectures are quite dated, but the phrases will be in your head forever after listening to the courses on repeat. Hope that helps.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#63
I became fluent in English by watching TV shows, movies, etc without subtitles. I even picked up an American accent and people often ask me if I'm from the states :)

I spent some time in Western Europe and I noticed that ,by default, they dub their movies instead of adding subtitles. I think this really affects the adoption of a foreign language as you are a lot less exposed to any other language than your own (outside of school, of course). On the other hand, movies are almost always subtitled in my home country, so a lot of people pick up basic English/Spanish/Turkish just from watching the TV.

Anyways, I think you could benefit a lot from direct exposure to the language itself, without the 'safe zone' that a teaching environment offers. Getting out of your comfort zone and accepting that you don't understand every word being said in a conversation is an excellent catalyst that will force you to learn a language by association and body language analysis, not by just memorising words.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#64
I moved to Australia from France when I was 11. I went to school and didn't speak a single word of English. Initially (for the first 6 months or so) I had no idea what people were saying and it created a lot of awkward (and tense) situations at school. Especially when teachers asked me a question and I couldn't respond and had to resort to facial expressions and hand waving to let them know that I was completely lost.

I think I understood most of English (and could do basic talk) after 6 months but I really started speaking properly after 1 year. It was pretty intense.

Now I'm in Moscow (Russia) - and I feel like it's the same thing all over again; I don't speak a word of Russian. It's harder to learn as an adult; there aren't as many opportunities to learn passively (adults don't talk about simple things like playgrounds, running around, going to the library, eating lunch, etc... The conversations are a lot more advanced so it's hard to pick up stuff).

I still speak (and write) fluent French.

I think the most interesting thing about speaking two languages really fluently is that sometimes I don't even realize what language I'm speaking in... Several times I told my wife a whole sentence in French without realizing (she only speaks English, Russian and Italian).

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#65
If possible, learn it young.

I learnt English at the age of 10 (which was best not to have any negative influence on the primary language as well), when I stayed in Australia for 3 years only but it stuck with me even after 20 years when my parents got much less confident in the language today. (Partially thanks to Internet where I could expose myself to English daily since then.)

As for pronunciation, I can still make converstation with natives as I kept reading English vocally when I read online materials to this day. I think it's very important to keep your tongue and mouth remember the flow by actively speaking if you are no longer in a position to talk with natives.

That plus the fact knowing the culture and the people in foreign country really makes a difference as an adult because you're no longer "afraid" of them (I especially feel this attitude in my country as a Japanese), those experiences have been such huge additions to my life, I'll be taking my kid abroad at certain age when I get one.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#66
Start learning the second language and don't stop.

Any and all of the following, in any order, skipping between them when you get bored or want to try something different. This is just a list of options you've already worked out for yourself.

Books (do them properly, cover to cover, answers all the questions and listening to all the conversations on the CD or whatever), specific books on grammr, making your own notes of topics of interest, websites, apps, making up conversation on your own, (paid) skype conversations with native speakers, evening classes, take a holiday there (and maybe take lessons while there on holiday).

The only common link amongst all people who learned a second language is that they started learning and didn't stop. That's the common link. That's how to learn a second language.

Stop spending time trying to pick out the "best" option and just start. Pretty soon you'll have worked out what you enjoy most. Just start learning and don't stop. Start now, don't stop.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#67
Inread lots of english software documentation and listened to podcasts and thus got fluent at English. I spend the childhood in France and thus became fluent in French. I married my teacher for the Persian language and by spending lots of time with her family and by visiting Iran often, I became close to fluent at Persian (supported by a textbook). Greetings from Tehran :)

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#68
I'm fluent in several languages (> 3).

When I learned my first foreign language (as a kid, in the 80's), there were only paper dictionaries and books. Software is a great improvement over paper dictionaries, however I’m unsure about apps. I tried a couple of applications and have been unconvinced.

That being said, the Internet makes it very easy to access content in the language you study and even find people with whom to speak. Youtube for example is full of videos on topics you like.

Let’s ignore software and tools, as it’s really secondary (yes, really).

The first step is the why? If it’s just for the pleasure, that may not be enough. There must be a reason, otherwise you are likely to give up. For example: work, living in the country, strong interest in the culture, relatives, origins, etc.

The difficulty of learning a foreign language depends on the distance between your native tongue and the foreign language. It’s very hard for an English speaker to learn Mandarin (and vice-versa), however French is a lower hanging fruit (you already share thousands of words of vocabulary).

It’s also very dependent on you. Some people are just better than others at learning languages. Just accept it and go at your rhythm.

The best advice I can give is that you should find a native teacher. I can’t stress the importance of learning with a native enough. It’s paramount for pronunciation and idiomatic phrasing. I would almost say that you are wasting your time with a non-native teacher, however competent she may be.

Why a teacher and not self-teaching?

I would refrain from self-teaching, as this will give you horrible pronunciation and probably give you bad habits. There is a point where an accent ceases to be cute and makes listening to you uncomfortable, don’t underestimate pronunciation. Remember: unlearning is one order of magnitude harder than learning.

In addition, learning a language is a serious commitment and without someone to give you homework every week (and checking that homework) you will very likely give up, even if you have excellent self-discipline.

Depending on your personality you can either have one to one sessions (for example with Skype) or work in group. I personally prefer one to one greatly.

Having a teacher and looking for that teacher will also test your resolve. :-) Every time someone mentions “I’m learning X”, I ask, “Why don’t you take courses?”. If the answer “I don’t have time”, I know the person isn’t serious about learning.

The temptation to give up will be at every corner as studying languages is very hard and the duration is measured in months, if not years. You will struggle, a lot. There are times where you will make no progress and seem unable to remember anything: that’s normal.

Speaking a foreign language is one of the greatest things in life. It expands your horizons and will overall make you a better, more understanding, humbler, human being. The pleasure of conversing with foreigners in their native tongue will belittle all the efforts you endured.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#69
My mother tongue is Dutch, as that is the language my family spoke growing up. My parents decided to give me a French education (we lived in Belgium then, which made that easier).

I learned English through TV (Flemish TV channels, and some Walloon ones are subtitled instead of dubbed), BBC radio and Linux documentation. I would say I was proficient around age 8. Around age 14-15 I decided to switch my American accent to a more British one.

I lived in southern France for some time, which exposed me to Spanish and Catalan. I'm not able to have a conversation, but I can follow a movie (I watched most of Narcos without subtitles). I took German classes in high school. I had a fair leg up thanks to my Dutch background. I wouldn't say I know the language in any shape or form, but I'm able to understand the rough lines of most written German.

I moved to Denmark about a year ago, took some (paid for by the government) classes to learn the basics. Pronunciation is horrible, but I have a fairly firm grip on the basic grammar, sentence structure (fairly close to Dutch, in the end) and vocab. I still do a fair amount of Duolingo and often ask my colleagues to keep conversations in Danish instead of switching to English. Due to the amount of English loan words in technical conversation, it's fairly easy to follow that. It's the casual conversation that is a lot more difficult to understand.

All of this to say: jump in. Move to another country, and don't rely on any kind of lingua franca to help you out. Watching TV in the language you're trying to learn, with either subtitles in a language you master, or once you've started getting a basic grip, subtitles in the same language as the spoken one.

Another thing you can do is watch English shows with subtitles in your target language. Force yourself to read the subtitles (this can be hard to do if you're not used to it). This helps with common idioms, sentence structure, and everyday vocab.

And read. Read a lot. Every country has a wealth of youth books, that, although not the most fascinating of reads, can be both challenging enough yet easy enough for beginners. Books also have the added advantage that they're asynchronous, meaning you can take time to reflect and research before hitting the next word.

Edit: typo.

Re: Ask HN: To those who became fluent in a second language, what did you do?

#70
Get films in the language and watch them with subtitles (in that language). Read novels as soon as you can. This is hard to start off with, stopping every couple of lines to look up a word, once you get down to 2-3 words a page that you don't know then start reading without a dictionary, skipping words you don't know (humans are great at interpolating meaning). Just those 2 get you half-way to fluency. For the rest, I think you really need immersion.
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