Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't care about keeping my credit card safer that it already is. I am not liable for credit card fraud. In this insecure world we live in, I have not lost a single dime, nor any time, nor was I inconvenienced in any way by card theft. It's not my problem to worry about. My debit card was skimmed once, a few weeks ago. The bank detected fraud, notified me that they sent me a new card, and I didn't lost any money. I…
I'm assuming you ended up with no debit card for a few days at least. That's a huge inconvenience in my opinion.
5900 online stores found skimming
61–70 of 104 posts
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#62I think this is a bad generalization, that doesn't even stand in more than 50% of the cases: If someone can inject Javascript into your site, your database is most likely also hacked.
It depends on the details, because there are also technologies where the templates are separated and you can add text to them without execution rights. But for all that people on HN may tend to prefer that, in the great big real world, thinking separation of execution and data is a requirement for a template language is a niche view. Even here you can start up a rollicking, free-wheeling debate on the topic, and I'm not even sure where I come down myself.
Unsurprisingly, the scammers use scanners that look for the soft targets first, so, statistically, I'd suspect the claim could be modified to a true statement with "If someone can inject Javascript into your site, they could have hacked your database with just a bit more effort on your site." It's easier to write something that sprays a script tag across a whole bunch of sites that can scrape off anything that gets submitted that looks like a credit card number than it is to write something to go dump databases across all those same sites, because the database is more likely to be customized or have quirky local rules that would make your automated code fail, or draw attention to itself when it froze the database for half an hour, or some other issue like that. But if someone paid personal attention to your site, they could probably grab the whole thing. At this scale, clearly personal attention is not being paid to these sites.
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#63Won't solve the problem completely, but what about removing eval from the spec? Or making us obfuscation more difficult?
You could also prevent this problem in general with Content Security Policy, by whitelisting only the domains you know JS should come from. Then, even if they do in fact get a script tag on to your page pointing at a hostile domain, it won't execute unless they also nuke your CSP headers. You can even set up your CSP such that it notifies you upon violations. In theory a hacker could still penetrate all that in one shot by disabling your CSP and then adding their script, but it means if they miss the CSP even briefly that you have at least a chance to be notified before they square it away. It at least raises the bar.
But the real problem here is that we're not generally talking about people who know about CSP, nor is it generally reasonable to expect they would or could, at least right now. It's pretty niche stuff in general. I'm sure if I gave a quiz on CSP here, a ton of people could reply with the correct answers, some of them even without Googling, but in general if I talk to my coworkers about that I'm doing well to get a vague "Yeah, I've heard of that I think..."
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#64Earlier quoted context omitted.
I work in ecommerce consulting - most of my clients take CC info on their site, the forms on the checkout POST (over SSL) to the PSP who then return a token to the site, all future transactions use the token. Most people don't want to bounce customers to a third party site for payment, it really hurts conversions.
I don't understand this at all. I really, really don't want to give my credit card details to some random webshop who are exceedingly unlikely to have solid security. If I can use PayPal or another well known payment provider, great, I don't even have to type in my details. But even a less well known PSP is more likely to get it right than a small business webshop. A slightly jarring user interface seems a small pric…
Especially now that it can be deployed on websites?
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#65Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm assuming you ended up with no debit card for a few days at least. That's a huge inconvenience in my opinion.
No, because I have many debit cards from different banks in order to have redundancy and increase availability when the bank's system is down, or a particular card simply won't work at some merchant, but other will (usually happens in the US with my European cards).
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#66And this is exactly why I do not understand why there is such a huge opposition against 3D Secure. It prevents this exact issue. Card fraud on 3D Secure pages that are well implemented (2nd factor with SMS or hardware device token) is non existent.
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#67Won't solve the problem completely, but what about removing eval from the spec? Or making us obfuscation more difficult?
I'm not sure what eval has to do with the specific problem, but you actually can nuke eval from your website in most browsers now with a header: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content_Security_Policy You could also prevent this problem in general with Content Security Policy, by whitelisting only the domains you know JS should come from. Then, even if they do in fact get a script tag on to your page pointing at a host…
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#68"Thanks for your suggestion, but our shop is totally safe. There is just an annoying javascript error."
please share the stores sending these negligent and insulting responses. they don't deserve any sort of protection.
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#69Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand this at all. I really, really don't want to give my credit card details to some random webshop who are exceedingly unlikely to have solid security. If I can use PayPal or another well known payment provider, great, I don't even have to type in my details. But even a less well known PSP is more likely to get it right than a small business webshop. A slightly jarring user interface seems a small pric…
I am not liable for credit card fraud. The last thing in the world I want is inconvenience for me , when it's other people's money at risk (bank, merchant, CC company, whoever), not mine. On the other hand, Paypal itself is a liability. Blocking your account (and your money!) for months without recourse, randomly reducing expense limits to nothing (50 EUR) are not just some Internet stories, but things that have happ…
Personally I think the banks should be paying for the bulk of this fraud out of the 2-3% transaction fees, not merchants who may not have anything to do with the problem. This way, there's strong incentive to actually issue secure cards and improve security. Right now, it's no skin off their backs, so nothing is improving.
Re: 5900 online stores found skimming
#70For victims added to the list and published within days, the victim is not allowed adequate time time to fix their vulnerability. That does real harm to the victims by inviting attacks before they can avoid the harm the disclosure invites.