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What has happened down here is the winds have changed

andrewgelman.com

21–30 of 187 posts

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#21
post #20

TL; DR: uncurated social media is used to critisize scientific peer-reviewed publications in psychology. This hurts scientists (peer reputation / society reputation?). IMO this is not specific to psychology: climate change, biology, computer science, physics, etc. research is exposed to the same phenomena. The hotter the topic, the bigger the flames get. However, if publication is clear about methodology, data collec…

This "TL;DR" is very misleading, even wrong! Source: I actually read the whole article and much of the discussion.

Instead of looking for an TL;DR, this time I suggest actually reading it. I would say it's well worth it.

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#22
post #20

TL; DR: uncurated social media is used to critisize scientific peer-reviewed publications in psychology. This hurts scientists (peer reputation / society reputation?). IMO this is not specific to psychology: climate change, biology, computer science, physics, etc. research is exposed to the same phenomena. The hotter the topic, the bigger the flames get. However, if publication is clear about methodology, data collec…

This "TL;DR" is very misleading, even wrong! Source: I actually read the whole article and much of the discussion. Instead of looking for an TL;DR, this time I suggest actually reading it. I would say it's well worth it.

Well this comment isn't really helpful too.

I'm intrigued. I haven't read the whole article, but if I did and say something like you did I would explain myself.

If it's very misleading, even wrong why don't you expose your reasons?

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This "TL;DR" is very misleading, even wrong! Source: I actually read the whole article and much of the discussion. Instead of looking for an TL;DR, this time I suggest actually reading it. I would say it's well worth it.

Well this comment isn't really helpful too. I'm intrigued. I haven't read the whole article, but if I did and say something like you did I would explain myself. If it's very misleading, even wrong why don't you expose your reasons?

> Well this comment isn't really helpful too.

I would claim it is: My only reason to make it was to prevent people from going away with that TL;DR. I don't want to make one myself, because why not just click on the link and read the article? The comment is not a summary of that article at all, that is all.

This is a complex subject and details matter very much. I don't think it is healthy to have people get only a caricature of the whole thing. I also recommend reading at least some of the many comments, and even to follow some of the links provided there. For example, I found this one in the comments and I've just reached the comment section: http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/04/28/the-control-group-is-ou...

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#24
Susan Fiske's name came up the other day, I wonder if the context for this essay in the article is the Statcheck bot that found errros in published papers. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12643978

Apparently (I gleaned from the comments) Susan was very vocally opposed to that project and said it was an attack.

She's painting a bleak picture of widespread social attacks and commentary causing the problems in academics that I don't think matches reality, and she's also suggesting the public shouldn't comment on publicly funded research.

I don't know of a single academic that has left the field due to negative commentary coming from outside the peer review system, and I know a lot of people that have left academics and a lot of people still in academics.

Some ambitious academic peers are vicious, and people are leaving due to infighting, trouble getting funding, academic stealing, difficulty getting tenure, and general departmental and university politics. The single biggest threat to education is our funding model and the exploding costs stemming from exploding amounts of administration.

The paper review process not only isn't one of the major problems, I personally believe it's actually working better now than it ever has, and that the quality and standards are higher than they've ever been.

The comments on Statcheck were wildly in favor of having automated bots fact-checking publications. I contend that it's best use is before publication, and not after, but otherwise I agree - it's awesome.

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#25
post #20

TL; DR: uncurated social media is used to critisize scientific peer-reviewed publications in psychology. This hurts scientists (peer reputation / society reputation?). IMO this is not specific to psychology: climate change, biology, computer science, physics, etc. research is exposed to the same phenomena. The hotter the topic, the bigger the flames get. However, if publication is clear about methodology, data collec…

This "TL;DR" is very misleading, even wrong! Source: I actually read the whole article and much of the discussion. Instead of looking for an TL;DR, this time I suggest actually reading it. I would say it's well worth it.

I agree, having read the article myself.

A very broad TLDR would be that the article takes an article with the parent commentator's TLDR, and refutes it while providing insights into why the the original author might have written it in the first place.

So go ahead and actually read the article!

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#26
post #20

TL; DR: uncurated social media is used to critisize scientific peer-reviewed publications in psychology. This hurts scientists (peer reputation / society reputation?). IMO this is not specific to psychology: climate change, biology, computer science, physics, etc. research is exposed to the same phenomena. The hotter the topic, the bigger the flames get. However, if publication is clear about methodology, data collec…

That is a TL; DR of an article to which this article is a rebuttal to. Your TL; DR thus omits literally the entire content of what the author has written.

Please read the article through before you make a TL; DR. It's well worth the read in any case.

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#27
Oh, free speech and criticism is okay as long as it's moderated and appropriate... Well played.

The work of psychology researchers influences our LAWS. They influence how I can live my life. It's a very personal thing. I will criticise them however I want and as much as I want until this branch of 'science' has cleaned up its conduct.

If your work cannot withstand criticism, it's worthless. Get out of science, Susan T. Fiske, you give it a bad name. Or rather, what you were doing was probably never science in the first place. Your attitude fills me with disgust.

This is not a Russel's Paradox situation that can be patched up. The crisis in social 'sciences' is of such a magnitude that the only reasonable course of action is "start over" in many cases.

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well this comment isn't really helpful too. I'm intrigued. I haven't read the whole article, but if I did and say something like you did I would explain myself. If it's very misleading, even wrong why don't you expose your reasons?

> Well this comment isn't really helpful too. I would claim it is: My only reason to make it was to prevent people from going away with that TL;DR. I don't want to make one myself, because why not just click on the link and read the article ? The comment is not a summary of that article at all , that is all. This is a complex subject and details matter very much. I don't think it is healthy to have people get only a…

> TL;DR. I don't want to make one myself, because why not just click on the link and read the article?

There's an essentially infinite amount of information out there on the internet, and people have a finite amount of free time; thus, many of us try to glean the thesis of an article before committing an hour to reading it -- particularly slow readers and non-native English speakers.

Especially in articles like this one, with a vague headline, no pull quotes, section titles that are too symbolic to actually describe the sections they head, and a break from the convention of using the opening paragraphs to provide a summary of what's to come, a TLDR comment is greatly appreciated to give a potential reader at least some clue what it's about.

TLDR: You oppose TLDR comments because you feel they keep people from reading the full article, but in cases like this, the lack of one is doing so.

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#29
Gelman is being a bit modest (for him) because he only mentions in passing probably the biggest recent example of the "social media takedown of psychology research" phenomenon: he was the first person to publicly raise questions about the LaCour and Green study on changing people's support for gay marriage, and he did it in his washingtonpost.com blog five days after the study was published.

Re: What has happened down here is the winds have changed

#30
Is Fiskes article related to the replication crisis?

Remember that whole cultural appropriation thing last year? Or the safe space movements on campus? There are plenty of movements that abuse political correctness to bully anyone around. On the opposite side there are plenty of 4chan types who love to shamelessly bully anyone who dare come out with a feministic message.

I imagine academics in related fields are ripe for being targeted by Internet bullies and trolls.

Isn't it this kind of abuse that Fiske is referring to?

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