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Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

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Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#241
post #54
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's definitely something to this: I spent most of the last 15 years in Italy, where people care about their food. They care a lot , and will absolutely discriminate between various tomatoes based on where they're grown, different kinds of pasta, and many other things to boot. In the US, I think we tend to just look at the price and mostly go by that if the product is not clearly awful. It is changing though: it's…

I find higher quality food to be a case of rapidly diminishing returns. When I'm cooking for myself, occasionally I'll take the time to make everything from scratch with fresh ingredients and it will be nicer, but it's only 10-20% nicer (if that can be quantified) for several times more effort.

I'm not sure I'd limit it to 10-20%, there are some classes of things that are hugely different... I find that making my own stock/broth is at least twice or three times as good as pre-prepared, and even among pre-prepared there's a huge variation. This becomes much more pronounced when used as a sauce base.

I find some things I don't notice as much difference (cream, butter) as I will others (milk, eggs)... There are other things that are a matter of taste (grain, grass, grass-finished beef). I wish, for that matter, that more labels contained what they were fed especially for milk and eggs, as the difference between brands/containers and locations is huge.

I try to cook at least once a week, and sometimes that means spending a day making broth/stock (mushroom is an absolute fav, but the most expensive where I live). I find that there are just a few things that make a huge difference, and others not as much... others still are a matter of preference. I also find that mouth feel is as personal as anything else in terms of enjoying a particular food.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"...that allows cheaper personnel to keep producing quality party. Slowly that process will suffer from time rot." I'm not so sure. I think its binary. I think there's always a touch, a qwan, assumed knowledge, skill & craft, or something that's not captured in the SOP. The master baker in the shop next door made the most delicious brioches. Left to start her own catering company. Whereas her trained replacements, us…

Joel Spolsky spoke about this several years ago, using Jamie Oliver as an example. In a nutshell, as long as everything stays constant, the process can turn out excellent food. The problem is that unless you manage the living hell out of your supply chain, the inputs change all the time and it takes a lot of skil to compensate. Continuing with your pancake example: the way I make bread in summer is different than in…

Do you make Sourdough? If yes, I've had success rising it in the fridge - takes longer (1.5-2 days) but conditions in their tend to be fairly constant. As a bonus, you get a ton of oven rise.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#243
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is higly correlated with regulatory laws governing agriculture in US and Europe. EU has much more strict policies, limits on pesticide use, no GMO rule, plus specific laws to protect traditional (sometimes centuries old) product recipies from being faked by inustrial-scale producers, replacing natural ingredients with chemicals. That's why food generaly tastes much better in Europe.

> limits on pesticide use, no GMO rule Neither impact flavor. > replacing natural ingredients with chemicals You do realize that "natural ingredients" are chemicals too right? Everything is made up of chemicals.

Your first comment doesn't square with my (limited) experience with bread. Making bread from wholemeal organic flour versus non organic makes a big difference. You can see, smell and taste it, and if you were nearby I'd bake you two loaves and ask you to rate each. However this isn't a true compassion as the manufacturing processes are sure to be different. My theory is that there is less wild yeast in the nonnorganic flour, but the real reason may differ.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Profits come from satisfying people's values Even bigger profits come from selling crap to people. Especially if you help build and sustain a whole culture that teaches them to have low expectations from what they buy, lure them with BS ads that tout unsubstantial products to high heavens, etc... > As an aside, I'd be skeptical of Artists who produce "Inspiring work" which refuse to find any takers. So like van Gog…

One man's "crap" is another's fine dining. I believe values are subjective and we choose what we value with our wallets. > teaches them to have low expectations from what they buy Do you not think that this is a paternalistic view of the world? What makes your opinion on what's "good" better than mine or anyone else's? > So like van Gogh who died penniless? I'd bet that there are several artists who died penniless wh…

>One man's "crap" is another's fine dining.

And some crap, everybody agrees it's crap.

This is not about McDonalds vs Mortons.

It's about the Ford Pintos or Dell Dittys.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I just want to say that there is a misconception here. 'Chef' indeed needs to go to school and may take years to earn the title. 'Pastry chef' is not a 'chef'. There is no culinary school involved, or required to be pastry chef.

You keep using this word "pastry". I don't think it means what you think it means. For one, pastries are not relegated to the simple stuff a 6-month training guy that put on an apron can make. There are pastry shops that produce stuff as hard, if not harder, than what the best restaurant chefs produce. In fact, pastries can be challenging even for top chefs otherwise very knowledgable in regular cooking.

> You keep using this word "pastry". I don't think it means what you think it means.

Um, what?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pastry

I don't see a great controversy brewing here. Pastry. What do you think it means?

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#246
post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The popularity of Whole Foods in the USA seems to contradict that statement.

Whole Foods is repackaged Costco crap that people pay markup for.

I don't think that's the case. I'd like to see some evidence.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time I dip my toes in some creative field that others take seriously, I find way more depth than was apparent from the outside. I have yet to find a hobby worth doing where I don't consistently think, "Wow, I'm so much better at this than I was last year/month/week." And I keep feeling that way no matter how much time I put into it. Over hundreds of years, thousands of people have dedicated their lives to pastr…

An anecdote against: I've been making beef fried rice for a little over a decade (but probably less than 500 times total). The best I could do in the first year was probably nearly as good as the best I could do five years in, and five years in was easily as good as any I could do now. It's a very simple dish, but then, that's the argument about these pastries as well.

As another anecdote, after I learned how the professional chefs made fried rice, it completely changed how I made it. For example, using cooled down rice, preferably from the night before.

Also, the need for extreme heat can complete change the taste, something that most homes don't have.

So if I want really good fried rice, I have to go out to get it.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#249
In these matters it pays to look closely at wants and needs. A lot of restaurants want great pastry chefs but in how many restaurants will an excellent pastry chef really make a difference? The whole experience of a night out depends a lot more on the desert. Sure an excellent desert can make the difference between a good meal and a totally over the top experience worth twice as much. But how many restaurants are on that level? Most suffer from significant weaknesses in the basics. A dollar can be spent only once and spending salary on pastry chef competes with cleaning the bathrooms more often.

Re: Pastry Chefs Are in Demand, Why Aren’t Wages Rising?

#250
post #232
post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I did in fact buy our wedding cake from the Publix Bakery near the church. We were extremely satisfied with the quality and the much more affordable price. Enough cake for a couple hundred guests for about $400.

To expand my point, we had a really tight wedding budget but still wanted to have friends and family. We had our reception in the Church's Fellowship Hall, not some fancy venue that cost 10x more. My wife and I had to make some hard decisions (harder for her than me, I could have gone much cheaper), but in the end we stuck with the plan. Are more expensive designer cakes worth the money, absolutely! And the pastry ch…

I had a small wedding too. But this isn't typical.
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