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The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

washingtonpost.com

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Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#51

Post by btym »

deathanatos wrote: post #39
btym wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even grammatically correct. The original headline was fine.

I think it's still grammatically correct. "withdraw" can be a verb; in this form it would be interpreted to mean "to leave from a place" (e.g., "the troops are withdrawing"). However, the title, as currently written, certainly doesn't mean what it was intended to mean. I.e., the way I'm parsing it is "(the DEA is leaving/retreating (to where isn't specified); once there, they're going to ban another plant); this occu…

Oop, you're right. It's awkward but it does technically make sense.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#52

Post by PostOnce »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

A whole bunch of plants can kill you, we haven't banned nightshade, most mushrooms, poison ivy, green potatoes lol.

Let's ban poison ivy.

Let's ban going outside without sunblock on.

Let's ban walking around without a bicycle helmet on.

Let's have the govt come into my office every two hours and remind me to get up and walk around and stretch.

At some point, people have to take care of themselves.

How many kratom addicts have you ever had a problem with? And how many problematic interactions with a drunk? We aren't banning alcohol either.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#53

Post by riffic »

sctb wrote: post #46
btym wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not even grammatically correct. The original headline was fine.

The article's original title needed editing to fix within the length limits, so the edited title from the submitter was likely just an accident or minor mistake. We've just updated it to clarify.

The title as given is awful, lacks context towards the plant being banned.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#54

Post by M00n_Sl47r »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

Long term kratom use can cause a dependence, and the withdrawals are very very similar to heroin/morphine withdrawals.

regarding your second point, I cant find any hard sources, but my experience has been that unless one is doing WAAYY too much kratom, both per dose and over longer periods of time. Unless you are already an opioid addict trying to use kratom to maintain and kick a harder habit (the well known use is as a transition from dope), you should NOT be doing kratom every day.. unless you're trying to become one of the aforementioned addicts.

On 3, definitely, it's a ridiculous misuse of the conception that natural is healthy. What if I told you to go out and do datura (Stramonium, iirc), or nightshade (makes you so pretty!). Both just as natural, arguably moreso considering you have to process kratom leaves, whereas you can go from finding a datura or nightshade family plant to eating it in seconds.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#55

Post by [deleted] »

cmdrfred wrote: post #21
WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

In medicine, you have to show a drug is more effective (or as effective) and is as safe as existing drugs for a purpose in order to get FDA approval. Why not take a similar stance on drugs for recreational purposes? If it is as safe or safer than alcohol or tobacco, approve it.

[deleted]

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#56

Post by BurningFrog »

cmdrfred wrote: post #21
WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

In medicine, you have to show a drug is more effective (or as effective) and is as safe as existing drugs for a purpose in order to get FDA approval. Why not take a similar stance on drugs for recreational purposes? If it is as safe or safer than alcohol or tobacco, approve it.

If that rule is so great, can we afford not to use it everywhere?

Let Pepsi, Toyota and Apple prove they're better than Coke, Ford and Microsoft!

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#57

Post by nikcub »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

Most modern nations accept opiate substitution therapy (OST) as the most effective way to treat opiod addiction. The entire premise of OST is that you substitute a bad opiate for a "less bad" opiate - and Kratom is looking like one of the best "least bad" candidates we've ever seen.

Nobody is delusional about the effects of Kratom or downsides - all drugs have downsides. I've never seen it mentioned or recommended outside of opiate substitution and for opiate addicts - it has no value as a recreational drug.

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#59

Post by [deleted] »

WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

[deleted]

Re: The DEA is withdrawing a proposal to ban another plant citing public outcry

#60

Post by darpa_escapee »

rms wrote: post #28
WhitneyLand wrote: post #14

I don't agree with the ban, but it seems like the risks of kratom are not discussed, and in fact even downplayed by saying hey, it's just a plant. To help me be an informed reader I would like WaPo to mention: 1) If you search kratom withdrawal there are a ton of anecdotal reports that sound pretty unpleasant if not debilitating. 2) What is the frequency of severe side effects, as best as can be known? 3) That "natur…

Kratom withdrawal is unpleasant. Debilitating withdrawal is uncommon in people that aren't taking heroic doses to self medicate their addictions to other opiates, therefore punting the withdrawal symptoms down the road. Acute kratom withdrawal is shorter than for long acting pharmaceutical opiates, but post acute withdrawal syndrome (PAWS) can be dragged out because kratom has some poorly documented and poorly unders…

I, unfortunately, have extensive experience with kratom and kratom extracts. Today, I am 5 years clean of kratom and all narcotics.

I bought the "kratom is non-addictive and can improve your life" line fully as a teenager. What ensued was indistinguishable from a full blown opiate addiction. I ended up in in-patient detox to finally quit and, five years later, have not regained all that I had lost during that time.

Just because kratom has a high threshold for overdose does not mean it is not an opioid.

Edit: Keaton != Kratom

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