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Bored with no ideas for next startup

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Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#41

Post by NSX2 »

aswanson wrote: post #40
NSX2 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AT&T is too broad and I don't know what you mean specifically, but from a common-sense business perpective, the problem Intel works on is "how to keep making smaller faster better processors" and I think again that's another idea that, technical though it may be, captures the interest of way more than 6 people.

Who was the market for the original telephone/telegraph, who was the market for the original transistor or microprocessor? Whose interest did those things capture initially outside of a small group of technical people? Were they built and people just lined up outside of Walmart to buy them?

What does this have to do with programmers? Aside from the fact that I'm talking about programmers and you're extending this to include "all technically-minded people everywhere", in general you're citing exceptions to my observations.

Example:

> Who was the market for the original telephone/telegraph

Gee ... um ... I don't know. Everybody in the world who thought it would be more convenient to get instant verbal communication over a letter that took weeks or months to deliver/respond to?

Let me put it another way. Pierre Omidyar is a technical guy, and more specifically a programmer. Did he choose to develop something that solved an obscure technical challenge, the goal of which was to be published in some computer science journal with a subscription base of 12 people?

No. He had a rare abililty of having both the technical talent and being able to think from the perspective of the general population.

Hence someone like him would be an exception to what I said I've observed.

But for everyone like him that can be cited, I can introduce you to 20 programmers that are trying to start startups around "challenges" so specialized and irrelevant-in-the-scheme-of-things that I know for sure they did zero market research before starting or even during.

Sure, lots of things that seemed like a waste turned out to be very useful with the benefit of an unexpected consequence coupled with unpredictable developments and the benefit of hindsight.

In general, though, I'd prefer to start with "what's needed" and try to come up with a technical solution as simple as possible rather than "what's the coolest thing I could work on technically" and then spend time on that only to find out that 5 people in the world would actually buy it.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#42

Post by NSX2 »

aneesh wrote: post #29
NSX2 wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, I mean just Google. Apple in my mind = present an OS GUI according to the needs of the human brain. A lot more than 6 people were/are/will be interested in that. Microsoft = make big business computer functions possible on the home computer (at least originally). Apparently more than 6 people were interested in that. Yahoo's proposition originally = the world wibe web is taking off exponentially and you need some…

Microsoft is actually more B2B than B2C. And yeah, Yahoo! was just making a list of links - hardly a challenging technical problem, but people wanted it.

That's my point exactly. They focused on what people wanted more than a challenging technical problem. That makes them the exception to most programmers I've come across who are fascinated with technical challenges so obscure the resolution of which nobody cares about. In academia, that's respectable and commendable. In business ... nobody cares.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#43

Post by Hexstream »

joe24pack wrote: post #20
technoguyrob wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Already exists: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_%28programming%29

Thanks, I'm aware of Comet. Not exactly what I meant, in Comet the connection stays open after being initiated by the client. I'm looking for something where the interaction is first client-to-server, then client registers a "callback" address and port that it will listen to. This would be followed by a server-to-client call where the server will send updates/events to client as they happen, the client then decides w…

I think firewall and NAT ubiquitousness (is that a word?) would make this unfeasible.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#44

Post by mixmax »

NSX2 wrote: post #14
pg wrote: post #11

What do you wish someone else would build for you?

IN GENERAL this is a great frame of mind to come up with ideas for a non-programming mind; I think, however, that as a developer such a perspective would lead to technically interesting stuff that few people would use / pay for. As time remains constant and life becomes more complicated, I suspect people will become more selective and use more of the kinds of services they would actually bother paying for and limitin…

I think you have a good point there.

I've met a lot of developers that would think that something wasn't worth doing because it was easy to do. But hard doesn't mean that more people will want it. Look at all the dating sites out there: Simple to do, but absolutely something people want.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#45

Post by NSX2 »

mixmax wrote: post #39
NSX2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Useful implies nothing but useful. People don't "want" to pay for anything. People want to keep their money in their pockets. They reluctantly pay for things whose usefulness, real or perceived, substantially exceeds the asked price. Gmail is "useful" but I sure's heck wouldn't pay for it. As for Starbucks, it illustrates my point perfectly: (1) Starbucks is mostly neuro-marketing. I guarantee you that the buzz peopl…

I've got a great idea: Crappucino - A frappucion with extra sugar on top. Where are my millions? Sorry but I don't quite think you know what execution is about.

> I've got a great idea: Crappucino - A frappucion with > extra sugar on top. Where are my millions?

No, I'M sorry but I don't quite think YOU know what a "great idea" is about.

Frappacino was a great idea where it took off in California because it's hot there and people liked the combo of cold and caffeine buzz.

Nobody (as) yet invented a portable high-power expresso maker/ice blender that can chop ice to smithereens in 7-8 seconds or so. So you need Starbucks.

Extra sugar on top is pointless because I can go to the condiment counter and just pour more sugar on top for free.

So you're idea by definition is not "good" because (a) it offers no value to the customer that they can't get by themselves without you and (b) you haven't figured out how you make money off of it (part of the definition of a good idea to begin with).

So in conclusion, you don't have a good idea - you have fluff you can't figure out how to make money off of. That makes you qualified for raising venture capital or applying to ... um ... this place I've heard of where there are a lot of ideas that never wind up making much money as stand alone businesses.

But that' doesn't mean you have a good idea. So you have no milliions.

Viola. Equation stands.

On top of which, I've never downgraded execution. My experience is that it takes a continual mix of both, plus lots of luck and timing, 2 things you can't control.

It's usually "execution" people dismissing the value of good (by which I mean you can make money off of) ideas, almost like some obsessive-compulsive insecurity or something. And now there's this post, and when I ask the simple question: what does a person who gives you a good idea get in return, nothing but crickets.

So if execution is the be-all end-all, have fun executing hot air people might use but never pay for.

See how far that gets you in this new global economic reality we'll be experiencing for the next 3-5 years.

Go on. Go execute ideas you can't figure out how to make money off of. Keep me updated.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#46

Post by aswanson »

NSX2 wrote: post #41
aswanson wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who was the market for the original telephone/telegraph, who was the market for the original transistor or microprocessor? Whose interest did those things capture initially outside of a small group of technical people? Were they built and people just lined up outside of Walmart to buy them?

What does this have to do with programmers? Aside from the fact that I'm talking about programmers and you're extending this to include "all technically-minded people everywhere", in general you're citing exceptions to my observations. Example: > Who was the market for the original telephone/telegraph Gee ... um ... I don't know. Everybody in the world who thought it would be more convenient to get instant verbal com…

I agree with you that most technical people value triumph over technical challenges more than economic worth. I suffered from an acute case of this disease for many years. Perspective is everything when building a startup product. A user doesn't give a damn about a language or methodology, they just want a need solved.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#47

Post by wumi »

NSX2 wrote: post #42
aneesh wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Microsoft is actually more B2B than B2C. And yeah, Yahoo! was just making a list of links - hardly a challenging technical problem, but people wanted it.

That's my point exactly. They focused on what people wanted more than a challenging technical problem. That makes them the exception to most programmers I've come across who are fascinated with technical challenges so obscure the resolution of which nobody cares about. In academia, that's respectable and commendable. In business ... nobody cares.

"But most programmers, if they're anything like the ones I've come across, would consider that "below them" and instead favor a startup working on some obscure problem that 6 people on the planet could understand and appreciate."

Do you realize you're arguing with yourself?

The 6 people argument was presented by you, and you're challenging other people based on that.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#48

Post by a-priori »

Hexstream wrote: post #43
joe24pack wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks, I'm aware of Comet. Not exactly what I meant, in Comet the connection stays open after being initiated by the client. I'm looking for something where the interaction is first client-to-server, then client registers a "callback" address and port that it will listen to. This would be followed by a server-to-client call where the server will send updates/events to client as they happen, the client then decides w…

I think firewall and NAT ubiquitousness (is that a word?) would make this unfeasible.

Yet another reason to speed the transition to IPv6.

Re: Bored with no ideas for next startup

#50

Post by NSX2 »

mixmax wrote: post #44
NSX2 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IN GENERAL this is a great frame of mind to come up with ideas for a non-programming mind; I think, however, that as a developer such a perspective would lead to technically interesting stuff that few people would use / pay for. As time remains constant and life becomes more complicated, I suspect people will become more selective and use more of the kinds of services they would actually bother paying for and limitin…

I think you have a good point there. I've met a lot of developers that would think that something wasn't worth doing because it was easy to do. But hard doesn't mean that more people will want it. Look at all the dating sites out there: Simple to do, but absolutely something people want.

Thank you.

Sometimes speaking with some of the programmers I have I suspect they think they're doing a startup, but in reality they're doing an extension of their academic programme and just secretly hoping that somehow they'll wind up making money off it.

I just can't understand why programmers are so reluctant to work on challenges with people from different perspectives.

My background is in economics. I can't stand lawyers and I can't stand psychiatrists and I don't care enough about neurologists and neuro-scientists to figure out what the difference is.

And yet over the last 10 years, the mixing of people of these seemingly unrelated backgrounds has given the world 2 of the most useful applications of economics: Law & Economics and Neuro-Economics. Fascinating and practical. Who knew?

Why can't all fields be like that, faster?

That's why ultimately I can't respect the programming ethos, as I've seen it, too much. Any true professional ... or academic "seeker of knowledge" ... should, IMHO seek continous improvement - bot vertical in terms of skill in their own field AND horizontal in terms of different perspectives.

Why does everyone respect Da Vinci so much, but nobody seems to want to emulate his methods?

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