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Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

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Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#71

Post by bimr »

gojomo wrote: post #58
bimr wrote: post #43

as @tiglionabbit mentioned, this is priming. The term should be famous now thanks to the books "Thinking Fast and Slow" and "Nudge". Also probably a dose of recency bias. http://opinionator.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/10/31/psyching-us-...

And yet, perhaps an equally-apt word is infamous , because 'priming' effects appear often among those psychological research results that fail-to-reproduce: http://www.chronicle.com/article/Power-of-Suggestion/136907/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Replication_crisis

Although, to be fair to Richard Thaler, the article you cite itself falls prey to the 1/n "mental accounting" heuristic. It gives half of its attention to a call center replication that did support the priming effect.

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#72

Post by GrinningFool »

ftrflyr wrote: post #62
stouset wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out. I don't know that evaluating drinking alcohol by getting hammered is really going to lead to a reasonable analysis. Most alcohol consumption is within reason. > I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure…

> If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice. While I won't argue your other points, I will push back a bit on the comment above. Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere…

It seems to me that people can be more apt to try to read someone's intent in writing something - beyond what the words convey directly.

Re-reading your original post, I can see why - absent the characteristics GP ascribed you - it would be really upsetting to be accused of it.

Your entire text can be read either as a genuine curiosity and attempt to get answered, or condescending humblebrag. And either one has the potential to be accurate.

Some subset of people tend to assume that it's the latter when they run into something that can be read like that. I often do too - I think it's that I sometimes find it hard to understand how someone could be writing in public forms (the internet no less) and not be aware of this.

And now that I've written it out, Ive become aware how ridiculous a basis that is. You can be aware that it's annoying when someone taps their foot on the floor, without quite being aware that you're doing it too. Someone points it out to you, you realize it, stop, and start again five minutes later.

All that said... I could still go either way. Though thinking this through has led me to the conclusion that in the future, I'll just ask.

So whichever it is in your case, I appreciate that the discussion prompted by your post gave me a chance to think about this...

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#73

Post by stouset »

ftrflyr wrote: post #62
stouset wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out. I don't know that evaluating drinking alcohol by getting hammered is really going to lead to a reasonable analysis. Most alcohol consumption is within reason. > I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure…

> If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice. While I won't argue your other points, I will push back a bit on the comment above. Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere…

> Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere in my expressing MY THOUGHTS did I make an attack on anyone, then that is your prerogative.

I don't care. And I didn't mean this to be a personal attack. Maybe you didn't mean it to come across the way I read it. Maybe you don't feel smugly superior to people who drink. But as written, your message came across (to me, and I'm guessing to those who upvoted me) the way I presented it.

At the very least, you grossly misrepresent the motives of people who drink as being primarily driven by peer pressure and a desire to conform. And your "experiment" of "drink everything in the house" comes across as misguided at best, and as chasing evidence in support of your preconceived notions at worst.

Given that, are you really so surprised that people took umbrage?

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#74

Post by oldmanjay »

ZoF wrote: post #15
oldmanjay wrote: post #9

Now that the headline is changed from the click-bait attempt at reducing individual responsibility for actions, I'm struck by just how insidiously pervasive these attempts seem to be. One could make a slightly paranoid case that it is a left-leaning goal to convince people that the aren't in charge of themselves anyway, so just let mama gov't take over.

It's almost as if the end-game is a docile/subdued populace who is so unsure of themselves that they'll welcome basic income/restricted speech/gun control with open arms. Sounds like a right wing conspiracy to me :)

More like observation that political types like to maintain control by aiming people at ideals they can never achieve.

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#75

Post by oldmanjay »

wutbrodo wrote: post #49
oldmanjay wrote: post #3

Headline says control, numbers and article conclusion say influence. My skepticism says when someone attempts to reproduce this, it may just vanish. My cynicism says the post is preparing this as an excuse for trump winning.

There are connotations of "control" that make it a flashier, more imprecise, more clickbaity way to say influence. Specifically, having some degree of control less than total control over one's behavior means roughly the same thing as having influence.

If you have to explain away the meaning of something by using an order of magnitude more words, you're bullshitting

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#76

Post by andrewl »

ftrflyr wrote: post #51

I drink once in my life. When I was 20. Why? I was interested in what being drunk felt like from a scientific perspective. Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out. I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure has never really had any effect on me. W…

If you were interested in the feeling of being drunk, drinking all the liquor you could find was the right procedure. If you were interested in why people drink, I would suggest that you used the wrong procedure.

The right procedure would be to get a glass of a good wine, or a good beer (not a mass-produced one) and sip it over dinner for about forty minutes, with friends. Depending on how big you are and how you personally metabolize alcohol, it would probably make you somewhat relaxed. And it would taste good. If it did not, you could find one that did.

In many cultures, alcohol is a food. It comes with side effects for sure, which are the sedation and decrease of inhibitions. The side effects are part of the enjoyment, but by no means are they the entire point of it.

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#77

Post by ftrflyr »

stouset wrote: post #73
ftrflyr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice. While I won't argue your other points, I will push back a bit on the comment above. Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere…

> Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere in my expressing MY THOUGHTS did I make an attack on anyone, then that is your prerogative. I don't care. And I didn't mean this to be a personal attack. Maybe you didn't mean it to come across the way I read it. Maybe you don't feel smugly superior…

> people took umbrage?

People no. You, yes. Please don't speak for other people.

> you grossly misrepresent the motives of people who drink

I do? I offered my OPINION on why I believe people drink. What qualifies me to give such an opinion?

10+ years as a bartender (from dive bars to high-end restaurants - the last being Spiaggia in Chicago). During that time, I continued to further my understanding of why people drink. Asking clients and gaining deeper knowledge. Let me ask you...why did you start drinking? Yes, you can point out that after high school...blah, blah, blah. I am not speaking to the fact that those have a choice once they reach an age where they are less pressured into doing things they have less control over at a younger age. You seemed to have completely missed the point of the article and my commenting an experience where peer pressure has not affected me.

So yes, I would say I am qualified to make statements not only about my personal experiences (those of which NEVER supported a position for or against drinking). You seemed to have done that for me.

> "experiment" of "drink everything in the house" comes across as misguided at best

Misguided at best? You are grasping at straws now.

> preconceived notions at worst

At worst? Let's put this into context.

Whether or not I develop an opinion before or after an experiment doesn't predict the outcome of that experiment. That is like saying because I heard about how bad heroin was growing up and tried it then...what exactly? What are you trying to say exactly? Because as far as I can tell, you are saying a whole lot without actually saying anything.

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#78

Post by imh »

ftrflyr wrote: post #62
stouset wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out. I don't know that evaluating drinking alcohol by getting hammered is really going to lead to a reasonable analysis. Most alcohol consumption is within reason. > I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure…

> If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice. While I won't argue your other points, I will push back a bit on the comment above. Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere…

>Growing up I often pondered the reasons why people begin drinking: Peer pressure, wanting to fit in, the need to feel cool, etc. None of these things every pushed me in the direction of needing to drink.

None of these are the reason most people drink. They would all be bad reasons to drink. You are saying we drink for bad reasons. You make a caricature of drinking (all the booze in the house) and say that's why you know better. The gist is that you missed the target on why others do something, and imply that you, scientifically, are wiser for it (you're drinks not only taste better than ours, they don't make you lose your inhibitions!).

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#79

Post by ftrflyr »

andrewl wrote: post #76
ftrflyr wrote: post #51

I drink once in my life. When I was 20. Why? I was interested in what being drunk felt like from a scientific perspective. Upon drinking all the liquor I could find in the house, the room began to spin and I didn't like the feeling of not being in control so I found the nearest couch and passed out. I often wonder if I am programmed differently than other people. Peer pressure has never really had any effect on me. W…

If you were interested in the feeling of being drunk , drinking all the liquor you could find was the right procedure. If you were interested in why people drink , I would suggest that you used the wrong procedure. The right procedure would be to get a glass of a good wine, or a good beer (not a mass-produced one) and sip it over dinner for about forty minutes, with friends. Depending on how big you are and how you p…

> what being drunk felt like from a scientific perspective

I was interested in what being drunk felt like.

In another comment, I explain how I pursued further knowledge for "why people drink."

> In many cultures, alcohol is a food.

Completely agree. I live in East Africa when I am not in Chicago so I have first-hand experience on the role of alcohol in other cultures.

Re: Peer pressure’s effects are perhaps more powerful than we thought (2014)

#80

Post by ftrflyr »

imh wrote: post #78
ftrflyr wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you don't want to drink or don't enjoy drinking, good for you. Do your own thing. But damn do you come across as feeling better than others for making that choice. While I won't argue your other points, I will push back a bit on the comment above. Since you seemed to gather so much from a sentence, let me ask you this, why do you care? If you are going to go out of your way to make a personal attack when nowhere…

>Growing up I often pondered the reasons why people begin drinking: Peer pressure, wanting to fit in, the need to feel cool, etc. None of these things every pushed me in the direction of needing to drink. None of these are the reason most people drink. They would all be bad reasons to drink. You are saying we drink for bad reasons. You make a caricature of drinking (all the booze in the house) and say that's why you…

> None of these are the reason most people drink.

Then what are the reasons for people wanting to drink? I am talking about that first time someone drinks.

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