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Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

bbc.com

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Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#61

Post by rasz_pl »

kbutler wrote: post #36
ethbro wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not being Thai, I won't comment on his effectiveness and I mourn anyone's passing. But it would seem like it's a lot easier to be 'widely loved' when you make it illegal to feel or communicate anything negative.

Laws preventing criticism don't generally motivate people to hang pictures of the king in their homes. A more plausible cynical position would argue that the widespread development projects funded by revenue from the king's vast royal fortune bought the affection. But the Thai people seem to generally respect, even revere King Bhumibol, feeling that he sincerely cared for the well-being of his people.

>Laws preventing criticism don't generally motivate people to hang pictures of the king in their homes.

obviously you never been/read about central Europe during Soviet occupation (1949-1991), Stalin pictures/busts everywhere, people cried on the streets when he died. In Poland we had _mandatory_ 'work holiday' celebrations on 1 of may. People would march on the streets holding Stalin pictures and chanting "Stalin! Peace! Party! Comecon (Eastern Bloc version of EU) makes us stronger!" and other nonsense while being observed by secret police and party monitors.

Stalin picture was a standard wall ornament in every living room and classroom.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#62

Post by rasz_pl »

joshontheweb wrote: post #16

I'm in Thailand at the moment and I'm interested to see how this plays out. This guy is super popular. His picture is on the wall in every business and many homes. Not out of compulsion. They just love the king. I'm sure most places will close for mourning. We have been advised to take out lots of cash and get food sorted as we may not have access for a little while. The bigger question is what is going to happen wit…

Yes, my people also _loved_ Stalin under Russian occupation.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#63

Post by oldmanjay »

rosser wrote: post #51
AdamN wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American and there are people from all over the world casually weighing in about America on HN. That's totally OK. Let's not have a double standard and let's be free to have opinions about other peoples' royals.

False equivalence. The Thai monarchy and lèse-majesté have far less impact on the global scene than most of the things about the US about which people are weighing in. Someone being prosecuted for stepping on Thai currency is small potatoes compared to ... say, a Trump White House. Or, you know, invasions under false pretenses.

You slaughtered the equivalences no one made but failed to demonstrate your ostensible point entirely.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#64

Post by oldmanjay »

throwanem wrote: post #53
AdamN wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm American and there are people from all over the world casually weighing in about America on HN. That's totally OK. Let's not have a double standard and let's be free to have opinions about other peoples' royals.

I'm not overfond of ill-considered opinions about the US expressed by those who know little of our country. But I also recognize the reality that the actions of the US are a matter of considerable concern for people who live elsewhere, because we tend to act in ways that reverberate across the planet. The same isn't really true of Thailand, so I don't think the concept of "double standard" applies here.

Why do the actions of the country in question have anything to do with it? Do we truly need affirmative action for royalty now?

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#65

Post by throwanem »

oldmanjay wrote: post #64
throwanem wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not overfond of ill-considered opinions about the US expressed by those who know little of our country. But I also recognize the reality that the actions of the US are a matter of considerable concern for people who live elsewhere, because we tend to act in ways that reverberate across the planet. The same isn't really true of Thailand, so I don't think the concept of "double standard" applies here.

Why do the actions of the country in question have anything to do with it? Do we truly need affirmative action for royalty now?

No. We need to mind our business and not everyone else's. Part of that is not talking nonsense about the system of rule employed by a sovereign nation other than our own - a system of rule with which we have no experience, of which we have no understanding, and against which our national mythos gives us by default to hold a certain degree of prejudice which hampers understanding instead of aiding it.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#66

Post by lobf »

vacri wrote: post #59
kafkaesq wrote: post #7

According to the FT ("King Bhumibol Adulyadej of Thailand, 1927-2016"): "Bhumibol Adulyadej ... chose not to condemn the 1976 massacre at Bangkok's Thammasat University of dozens of pro-democracy protesters ..." Time Magazine: "Thailand Bids Farewell to Beloved King Bhumibol Adulyadej", regarding said events: In early October of that year, demonstrations convulsed Bangkok in response to the arrest of prominent studen…

> apparently safe enough for the U.S. to consider Thailand among its staunchest asian allies for the past several decades Maybe the US found a friend, given that its military also killed college students in the same era; students using their democratic right to protest? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

C'mon man, do you really think the Kent State shootings are at all comparable to the '76 massacre? Look at the photos...

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#67

Post by nihonde »

oldmanjay wrote: post #10
nihonde wrote: post #4

The reverence that Thai people have for this King is no joking matter. They take their monarch deadly seriously and it seems fair to let them honor the King as they see fit without a lot of outsiders casually weighing in with half-baked opinions.

Many of us don't limit ourselves based on how seriously others take things, and we don't really have or need a reason. It's just as fair as considering royalty to be sacred.

I don't have a high regard for monarchies in general. I'll talk all day about what an insulting waste of time and money the U.K. monarchy is. It's not about your freedom to say what you want -- it's about respecting the views of others and acknowledging that your casual opinion might be very hurtful to other people who are free to hold their own views.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#68

Post by nihonde »

AdamN wrote: post #24
nihonde wrote: post #4

The reverence that Thai people have for this King is no joking matter. They take their monarch deadly seriously and it seems fair to let them honor the King as they see fit without a lot of outsiders casually weighing in with half-baked opinions.

I'm American and there are people from all over the world casually weighing in about America on HN. That's totally OK. Let's not have a double standard and let's be free to have opinions about other peoples' royals.

No one is curtailing your right to say what you want. My original point was to educate people about how deeply Thai people feel about their King. It's not just the threat of prison time at work--it's serious business in that part of the world and if you're not a troll, you may want to play nice with people.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#69

Post by rosser »

oldmanjay wrote: post #63
rosser wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

False equivalence. The Thai monarchy and lèse-majesté have far less impact on the global scene than most of the things about the US about which people are weighing in. Someone being prosecuted for stepping on Thai currency is small potatoes compared to ... say, a Trump White House. Or, you know, invasions under false pretenses.

You slaughtered the equivalences no one made but failed to demonstrate your ostensible point entirely.

Please do both of us a favor and never reply to me again. Given every exchange we've ever had, it's clear we see the world from such fundamentally incompatible premises that dialog is not possible. That being the case, any further engagement is clearly meant to antagonize.

Re: Thailand's King Bhumibol Adulyadej Dies at 88

#70

Post by vacri »

lobf wrote: post #66
vacri wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> apparently safe enough for the U.S. to consider Thailand among its staunchest asian allies for the past several decades Maybe the US found a friend, given that its military also killed college students in the same era; students using their democratic right to protest? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings

C'mon man, do you really think the Kent State shootings are at all comparable to the '76 massacre? Look at the photos...

I'm coming from a country where the military don't fire on the population at all, and are never called in to keep the peace... so the comparison is not so far different as you might think. Even if our military were called in to keep the peace, firing into the air to scare protesters (a college student protest at that!) into submission is something that would be abhorrent here.

So yes, Kent State was a mistake born from confusion, but there's still similarities in using the military and live rounds to control the population.

Or perhaps a different moral standpoint: in the same era, look at how the US military treated the very Vietnamese civilians that they were explicitly there to protect. I'm not saying the US is an autocratic junta, I'm just saying the glass houses/stones thing - how can the US be a staunch ally of such a place? Well, because the US is often A-OK with those kind of actions.

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