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Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

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Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#201

Post by st3v3r »

forgetsusername wrote: post #133
Smerity wrote: post #14

I highly recommend listening to a recent episode[1] of Planet Money. This was by no means an accident. As a short summary of one employee's plight: Ashley, working for them and making only $35k per year in San Francisco, was continually harassed to sign people up for accounts they didn't want. An old man comes in, pensioner, $200 in overdraft fees due to being duped into excess accounts. She dips into her own savings…

> Wells Fargo put her onto a permanent blacklist that others in the industry pay attention to - she can't get a job anywhere else. I just listened to this episode last night, by chance. She speculates that she is on a blacklist, because she's having trouble finding work. But there's a more charitable (to the other banks) explanaton: she was a very low level employee who, true or not, just got fired for a massive frau…

How are they more so responsible for the fraud if they were fired for not doing it?

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#202

Post by kxyvr »

nevir wrote: post #125
mahyarm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is special about WF? I use schwab as a main account (free ATM usage world wide w/ no currency exchange fees), keep a free BoA eChecking account for cash deposits that I haven't done in years and have credit cards with various banks. I also use schwab & vanguard for index funds.

Ditto; switched from WF to Schwab and haven't looked back.

I looked at moving an account to Schwab, but it looked like they cut off their international wires. Did you receive any internal message about this? I may have been mistaken, but I recall when I looked a little over a year ago they offered the service, but when I look now, they do not:

https://www.schwab.com/public/file/P-6425867/SLS77378-01.pdf

As a slight aside, since I've been hammered by this in the past, even if the card says no foreign transaction fees, that can be sort of a lie if you're getting screwed on the foreign exchange rate. Unfortunately, figuring out that rate can be extremely difficult not just because the spot rates changes daily, but because most banks won't disclose their formula. At least for wires, some banks like BofA and Wells Fargo take upwards of 4% off the spot rate (think xe.com numbers) in addition to fees. Though, do they do not and not required to call this a fee. Basically, what I found is that the no foreign transaction fee cards can be a scam. I have no idea what Schwab is like and I'd be curious to hear.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#203

Post by st3v3r »

forgetsusername wrote: post #198
Klinky wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must not have listened very closely. As noted below in the transcript, they confirmed the U5 form. Also she started in 2007 and it was noted she worked there for 5 years, i.e. fired around 2012 before shit hit the fan. Her story is actually rather common for honest employees working at Wells Fargo, which is why they are going to get sued by many for wrongful termination. Management mismanaged employees and create…

> they confirmed the U5 form Not a "blacklist", and not unexpected when you're canned from a finance job. As far as WF is concerned, she committed fraud , so they filed a U5. Would you rather they not? It will be investigated; if it's unfounded she can sue. > Her story is actually rather common for honest employees working at Wells Fargo Yes, there are honest employees caught up in this. There are also many dishonest…

No, as far as WF is concerned, she REFUSED TO COMMIT FRAUD, and so that's why she was fired. And because she refused to go along, she was blacklisted.

"Really? More responsible than the people who commit the act?"

Absofuckinglutely. If you are in a position of power over someone, and you tell them to commit fraud or they are fired, then YOU are culpable.

"If my employer asked me to do some fraudulent, I would refuse."

I'm glad you can afford to do so.

"I certainly wouldn't rip people off, then complain that I was "told to"."

I'm glad you can afford that moral high horse, too.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#204

Post by ianai »

ptaipale wrote: post #195
ianai wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, estimating future value is fundamental to the nature of all start ups. Of course it's often going to be wrong. The difference here is Wellsfargo has been around for ever. Their market value should be mature, stable, and reliable by comparison.

Moreover, the business they are in is such that you shouldn't expect to see hockey stick type growth predictions. Sometimes it happens that a company has been around for a hundred years but then enters a new business and sees phenomenal growth. That is reasonable. For Wells Fargo's operation, no.

There's always that possibility to buck the trend, but they certainly didn't.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#205

Post by st3v3r »

ArkyBeagle wrote: post #66

I watched a lot of his testimony before the Financial Services Committee on CSPAN. So I am unsurprised. He took a fairly savage beating. For some reason, the fact that Wells Fargo is a really big enterprise cut no ice with the various Congresscritters. FWIW, I am not a "break up the banks" guy[1] mainly because of things written and said in podcasts by Charles Calomiris, author of "Fragile By Design" along with Steph…

" He took a fairly savage beating."

He got a tongue lashing. He still has not faced any real consequences for what he did.

"For some reason, the fact that Wells Fargo is a really big enterprise cut no ice with the various Congresscritters."

Why would that excuse any of it? He's paid ungodly sums of money to be in charge of the company, and be responsible for it. If he can't handle it, then he does not deserve that money.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#206

Post by dredmorbius »

olegious wrote: post #152
Smerity wrote: post #14

I highly recommend listening to a recent episode[1] of Planet Money. This was by no means an accident. As a short summary of one employee's plight: Ashley, working for them and making only $35k per year in San Francisco, was continually harassed to sign people up for accounts they didn't want. An old man comes in, pensioner, $200 in overdraft fees due to being duped into excess accounts. She dips into her own savings…

11 years ago, my first job out of college was as a "personal banker" for Wells Fargo. If I remember correctly, our goals were 8 "solutions" a day. Every few hours either a shift leader, assistant manager or the branch manager would come over and ask you "how many solutions do you have?" If you said a low number, you'd be told that was "unacceptable" and coached on how to generate more solutions (everything from forci…

What rationale was offerred for forcing Internet access?

What was Wells's interest in doing this?

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#207

Post by dredmorbius »

infinite8s wrote: post #71
GCA10 wrote: post #28

Bravo to the directors for waking up. Any time there's a long-serving CEO of a big public company, it's as if the directors have been chloroformed. They generally show no ability to question the boss, let along hold him/her accountable for anything. Most of the other boards that should be waking up ... probably won't. But at least they've got a reminder that it's possible.

He's also chairman of the board. Not sure if he's relinquishing that role.

I'm pretty sure he is. Though NYT doesn't quite say so directly.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/13/business/dealbook/wells-fa...

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#208

Post by ArkyBeagle »

st3v3r wrote: post #205
ArkyBeagle wrote: post #66

I watched a lot of his testimony before the Financial Services Committee on CSPAN. So I am unsurprised. He took a fairly savage beating. For some reason, the fact that Wells Fargo is a really big enterprise cut no ice with the various Congresscritters. FWIW, I am not a "break up the banks" guy[1] mainly because of things written and said in podcasts by Charles Calomiris, author of "Fragile By Design" along with Steph…

" He took a fairly savage beating." He got a tongue lashing. He still has not faced any real consequences for what he did. "For some reason, the fact that Wells Fargo is a really big enterprise cut no ice with the various Congresscritters." Why would that excuse any of it? He's paid ungodly sums of money to be in charge of the company, and be responsible for it. If he can't handle it, then he does not deserve that mo…

It's far more than a tongue lashing. Look, this is how these folks assemble footage to run on and such. One New York pol ( Meeks? ) called WF a criminal enterprise.

I didn't say it would excuse anything. He's responsible. There were bad actors within WF. Some people ( presumably there's correlation between that and who was a bad actor ) were fired. I don't mean the people who were fired under the compensation structure.

This might take a while. They have 265,000 employees. If it's O(n) and each case takes thirty man-minutes, that's 66.25 man-years.

I don't know any other context than the congressional hearings. But this appears to be a sacrificial resignation.

"Ungodly sums of money" is quite the (non) standard. I hold that the cultural failings and biases that cause us to cause the existence of these behemoths are still with us.

Why are we still talking about compensation policy? Can't we figure out how to pay people? This is clearly a case of gamification of a variable compensation policy.

What's behind that "Can't we figure out how to pay people?" Isn't that what's at issue in general? Isn't that what drives the debate over inequality? There's Something Wrong. With us.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#209

Post by jxramos »

Smerity wrote: post #14

I highly recommend listening to a recent episode[1] of Planet Money. This was by no means an accident. As a short summary of one employee's plight: Ashley, working for them and making only $35k per year in San Francisco, was continually harassed to sign people up for accounts they didn't want. An old man comes in, pensioner, $200 in overdraft fees due to being duped into excess accounts. She dips into her own savings…

WOW this casts a whole new light on the idea of bank accounts for me, basically rent seeking via excess bank account ><

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#210

Post by olegious »

dredmorbius wrote: post #206
olegious wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

11 years ago, my first job out of college was as a "personal banker" for Wells Fargo. If I remember correctly, our goals were 8 "solutions" a day. Every few hours either a shift leader, assistant manager or the branch manager would come over and ask you "how many solutions do you have?" If you said a low number, you'd be told that was "unacceptable" and coached on how to generate more solutions (everything from forci…

What rationale was offerred for forcing Internet access? What was Wells's interest in doing this?

We sold it as a "security precaution, if you create an online access account in our branch, hackers won't be able to create one for you."

As far as WF's interest goes- this is one of those situations where the bank's strategy relied on having customers use as many products as possible, the thought was that if you use many banking products, you're less likely to switch banks. So all sales goals were set around the number of products (we called them "solutions") you sold. This is a rational strategy, but since things like debit cards or online accounts counted as solutions and the sales pressure was immense, the system could be gamed by selling solutions that really didn't help the company's overall goals. It was a broken incentive system.

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