Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down • Hacker News Board

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#61

Post by the_watcher » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:14 PM UTC

erickhill wrote: post #15

I'm surprised no individuals at the executive level have been charged with crimes, to be honest. Or perhaps it's simply too soon and that's the next shoe to drop.

It takes a shockingly long time to get to the point where you can file criminal charges. IANAL (but I did go to law school) but you need time to, at minimum, decide which charges to file (and ensure there are no jurisdictional issues), where to file them, talk to witnesses, file requests for documentation, etc. On top of all that, if you don't dot your i's and cross your t's perfectly, a judge could dismiss the case.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#62

Post by thrill » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:15 PM UTC

jackmott wrote: post #31

Why isn't anyone in jail again? We will choke a guy to death for selling cigarettes incorrectly, and can't put people stealing millions in jail.

This is why the management involved is unlikely to see prison: https://www.opensecrets.org/orgs/recips.php?id=D000019743

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#63

Post by suprgeek » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:16 PM UTC

What is not mentioned in the very thin article is that this scumbag who ruined many people's lives gets to walk-away with $134 Million [1].

[1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/markets/2016/10/12/wells...

Yet if a common man had committed any of the fraud - they would be very likely in jail.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#64

Post by shill » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:16 PM UTC

webaholic wrote: post #2

Go Elizabeth Warren! Without her prodding, I am sure this would never have happened. He was very happy with firing the 5k employees and not taking any blame on himself for what was essentially his push.

I suspect Warren Buffet may have pushed for Stumpf's resignation/termination, as well as other damage control measures. This is a similar situation to the Solomon scandal, although Buffet has a smaller stake in WFC.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#65

Post by lazaroclapp » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:17 PM UTC

carsongross wrote: post #39

Until the headline reads "Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Goes To Jail", nothing changes.

I would be fine with "Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Ordered to Pay Back Fraudulent Fees to Wells Fargo Clients, Out of Own Pocket" (possibly down to some wealth limit, say, he can keep the $35K he apparently pays to his employees if his fortune is not enough to restore the damage). I am not a big believer in jail as punishment (as opposed to "place we keep people who are dangerous to others, for the good of society at large"). The remedy to fraud should be a fine, but it should be a fine commensurate with the level of fraud rather than a slap on the wrist and it should affect the people involved, not just get passed down to corporate stockholders (which includes pension funds and the like). I would also be fine with a court injunction banning him from working on banking, again, not as punishment but as "this man can't be trusted by society to handle other people's money". All of this after proper trial, of course.

That said, bank CEOs are a Least Concern species when it comes to overuse of punishment in the justice system, so if someone wants to jail them until we decide not to jail many other types of non-violent offenders, well... I am not fighting that one too strongly. I just think that in one way it would be a step in the wrong direction.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#66

Post by ArkyBeagle » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:19 PM UTC

I watched a lot of his testimony before the Financial Services Committee on CSPAN. So I am unsurprised. He took a fairly savage beating.

For some reason, the fact that Wells Fargo is a really big enterprise cut no ice with the various Congresscritters.

FWIW, I am not a "break up the banks" guy[1] mainly because of things written and said in podcasts by Charles Calomiris, author of "Fragile By Design" along with Stephen H. Haber. It is all more nuanced and complicated than that, and the small bank lobby in the US really is a thing and a thing that has caused problems.

[1] Canada has very close to only one bank and has had no financial crises to speak of.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#67

Post by honkhonkpants » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:20 PM UTC

sverige wrote: post #22

honkhonkpants wrote: post #4

Honestly I still don't understand why this organization continues to exist. Banks are chartered by the government for the purpose of safeguarding deposits. This bank was engaged in fraud on a huge scale. Their charter should be terminated.

Too big to fail. 2008 wasn't that long ago, remember? If the big banks go down, a lot of politicians lose a lot of money.

It doesn't have to fail. Its administration can be taken over by a purpose-built entity (or the army corps of engineers, who cares really) and all sales and marketing can be halted while everything is liquidated in an orderly fashion.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#68

Post by ArkyBeagle » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:21 PM UTC

sverige wrote: post #22

honkhonkpants wrote: post #4

Honestly I still don't understand why this organization continues to exist. Banks are chartered by the government for the purpose of safeguarding deposits. This bank was engaged in fraud on a huge scale. Their charter should be terminated.

Too big to fail. 2008 wasn't that long ago, remember? If the big banks go down, a lot of politicians lose a lot of money.

https://www.amazon.com/Fragile-Design-Political-Princeton-Ec...

Read that then form an opinion.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#69

Post by bananabill » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:24 PM UTC

beachstartup wrote: post #50

outworlder wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's this "permanent blacklist"? Is that something on the financial sector?

you bet your ass certain companies can add/edit/view secret notes on your credit history.

I work for a huge card company please tell me more about this.

Re: Wells Fargo CEO John Stumpf Steps Down

#70

Post by WhitneyLand » Wed, Oct 12, 2016, 10:24 PM UTC

Smerity wrote: post #14

I highly recommend listening to a recent episode[1] of Planet Money. This was by no means an accident. As a short summary of one employee's plight: Ashley, working for them and making only $35k per year in San Francisco, was continually harassed to sign people up for accounts they didn't want. An old man comes in, pensioner, $200 in overdraft fees due to being duped into excess accounts. She dips into her own savings…

>>ripping apart the lives of employees and customers

You don't think that's a teency bit mellowdramatic? That description seems perfect for Bernie Madoff, Enron, et al.