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Facebook React.js License

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Re: Facebook React.js License

#141

Post by brlewis »

tracker1 wrote: post #131
gbuk2013 wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you should read the article again. What it argues is that the licence essentially means that you can't initiate a lawsuit against FB for infringing one of your patents (which may have nothing to do with Reaft) without losing your React licence. Now whether that bothers you or not depends on your individual circumstances and the sanity of your particular legal jurisdiction, but it certainly would be something…

Given that software patents probably shouldn't even be allowed, I'm okay with this. Also, it's not THAT different from the fairly popular Apache License 2.0's patent provisions.

Who said anything about software? Facebook or one of its affiliates could infringe a hardware invention and suing them for it would have the exact same implications.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#142

Post by tracker1 »

coding123 wrote: post #72

Email I just sent the OSI: Please see here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12692552 It turns out companies are now "bastardizing" the license terms. I would love for the OSI to re-evaluate if these licences are truly open source. Open source covers freedom, and I should think that these clauses abridge that freedom since it is very well possible for a company to be required to sue Apple or Facebook over patents…

It's not significantly different than the Apache or MSPL licenses in this regard.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#143

Post by tracker1 »

brlewis wrote: post #128
morenoh149 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So happy https://preactjs.com/ and others are around

Other frameworks could infringe the hypothetical React-related patent. There is no safety from infringement as long as software patents exist.

Personally, I'm opposed to software patents... that said, there's no safety from any third party wrt patents either.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#144

Post by brlewis »

tracker1 wrote: post #143
brlewis wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Other frameworks could infringe the hypothetical React-related patent. There is no safety from infringement as long as software patents exist.

Personally, I'm opposed to software patents... that said, there's no safety from any third party wrt patents either.

I think there exist fields of invention where it's reasonable for inventors to know what's in the patent database and thus avoid unintentional infringement. Obviously software isn't one of those fields.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#145

Post by philipodonnell »

tracker1 wrote: post #133
ronjouch wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a known and deliberate shortcoming of many licenses (e.g. BSD) not to include patent stuff because it makes everything unnecessarily complex. There was recently an article about why BSD and MIT are so popular, and it's because they're concise and understandable. Could you (or anyone confident in their legalese) elaborate on: * Does the Apache2 license indeed solve this? (I'm asking because I read about it in t…

Apache 2, iirc, has similar patent provisions where you lose patent protection if you bring suit to any contributors.

Important caveat as I understand it from other comments: Apache 2 is limited only to suits about derivative works under that specific license.

Facebook's is much broader because you lose patent protection if you bring suit against Facebook about anything, even patents with nothing to do with React, like hardware, and even if Facebook is intentionally violating one of your patents.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#146

Post by ramenmeal »

morgante wrote: post #132
stealthefocus wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But what if Oracle buys facebook or Zuckerberg steps down and a litigious CEO takes over. This is a major concern for lawyers in large companies.

I'm happy to recommend that everyone stop using React if Facebook ever sues someone for using React. But it remains a very unlikely possibility, especially since we don't even know if Facebook has React patents.

If what I gather is correct, the patents in question don't need to be related to React.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#147

Post by morgante »

ramenmeal wrote: post #146
morgante wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to recommend that everyone stop using React if Facebook ever sues someone for using React. But it remains a very unlikely possibility, especially since we don't even know if Facebook has React patents.

If what I gather is correct, the patents in question don't need to be related to React.

Yes they do, because that's the only patent rights this license is granting to you. All that happens if you sue Facebook for patent infringement is that you lose the patent license included with React—since unrelated patents were never included in that in the first place, it makes no difference if it's terminated.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#148

Post by nmblackburn »

This has been a major issue for me from the get go, it goes against open source culture but that's no surprise because that is what Facebook loves to do (which it has consistently proved).

They pick something upcoming, recreate it injecting their ideals while knocking the original. They then release it to a sea of "pseudo developers" that latch onto it with the "well it's good because Facebook" mentality which aggressively defend it giving them more leverage.

Then they rinse and repeat until they have replaced everything the community has created with their equivalent instead of contributing back to those projects like a true supporter of open source would.

Open source is much more than having code on a repo, it's a culture that Facebook is hell bent on "changing".

Re: Facebook React.js License

#149

Post by pkozlowski_os »

morgante wrote: post #132
stealthefocus wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps. But what if Oracle buys facebook or Zuckerberg steps down and a litigious CEO takes over. This is a major concern for lawyers in large companies.

I'm happy to recommend that everyone stop using React if Facebook ever sues someone for using React. But it remains a very unlikely possibility, especially since we don't even know if Facebook has React patents.

Right. After you've spent 10+ man/years developing an app based on React / other lib with similar restriction. "stop using React" is fine advise for small projects that can be rewritten in few months by few people. For very large projects the cost of stop using / rewrite could be huge.

Re: Facebook React.js License

#150

Post by EdwardMSmith »

pkozlowski_os wrote: post #149
morgante wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm happy to recommend that everyone stop using React if Facebook ever sues someone for using React. But it remains a very unlikely possibility, especially since we don't even know if Facebook has React patents.

Right. After you've spent 10+ man/years developing an app based on React / other lib with similar restriction. "stop using React" is fine advise for small projects that can be rewritten in few months by few people. For very large projects the cost of stop using / rewrite could be huge.

But utterly dwarfed by the cost of an offensive patent infringement lawsuit against a $300+ Billion company.
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