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Disappearing messages for Signal

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Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#161

Post by Johnny_Brahms »

kelnos wrote: post #150
Johnny_Brahms wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SRTP and ZRTP is only for negotiating what to use. You can still use different codecs. I'd guess Wire, WA and SC use opus (since it is by far the best), while signal is still using speex. ZRTP makes negotiation possible, so a roll-out of opus should be possible without breaking older clients.

Unless this is some non-standard variant, ZRTP only negotiates a key exchange for use when encrypting the audio packets (the 'S' in 'SRTP'). Neither of those protocols has anything to do with codec selection, which is done via a SDP sent over SIP, or some other signaling protocol.

Sorry. I should just shut up about things I don't know much about. I thought the rtp part did negotiation, since they specify a "payload type" field and remembered the zrtp config in jitsi where you can specify codecs, and jumped to conclusions.

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#162

Post by kkl »

MereKatMoves wrote: post #48
kkl wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Signal phone audio issues went away after I upgraded hardware. Not a great solution (obviously) but something worth noting.

that's interesting. I'm running a 2 year old Xperia Z3 and it never occurred to me that my CPU might be the issue, but SC seems to handle audio quality just fine edit - what did you upgrade to/from?

LG G2 to a Nexus 5X.

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#163

Post by darklajid »

tdkl wrote: post #154
darklajid wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is either new or wrong. I just posted a sibling comment to the GP: At least in August it wasn't optional and happened automatically on Android, unless you were running M: The permissions requested during installation (contact access, to even have a way to offer this feature) of the app were exercised without asking for further consent and your contacts were shared with their server unconditionally.

There'a a on/off switch to share contacts under Wire Settings/Options and it's off by default at installation, (it was at the end of August when I started using the service). Don't know though if the app asked for permission to access contacts like it should, since I don't have any device with M. This is from the Privacy whitepaper how they manage the data shared [1] : > Address books are uploaded to backend servers…

Interesting. That implies that they changed that behavior in less than a month after I opened a ticket, which is actually very nice to read.

Tried it on Pre-M and M, it worked correctly on M ("Wants to access your contacts" -> Denying didn't harm the app). For Pre-M it was as I described above: Opt-out (and worse, they have/had no way to remove contacts, at all) instead of opt-in.

I appreciate the update though - will look into Wire again these days.

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#164

Post by lorenzhs »

lqdc13 wrote: post #81
_9vpl wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With the approach that Signal has taken, it doesn't require you to register a username. The app just registers you with the server as a Signal user using your already unique ID - your phone number. While not the most secure and privacy-protecting method, it allows anyone to just install it and start using it as a secure alternative to plaintext SMS.

Regarding SMS - it's not always an alternative to SMS since it uses data. I know data is more popular than SMS in many countries, but when you hit your monthly limit, you want to disable all data. Regarding the simplicity of using a phone number and how it would be very easy for all users - Wickr provides basically the same service, is more popular, but uses usernames instead of phone numbers. The fact that something…

> when you hit your monthly limit, you want to disable all data.

This is country-specific. In Germany, any data usage exceeding your plan is free but terribly slow, usually 64kbit. That's good enough for messaging and checking email (and HN comments).

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#165

Post by lorenzhs »

walterbell wrote: post #145
e1ven wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the poster who you replied to, but - Just because someone explains their reasoning, doesn't mean you have to agree with them :) I don't particularly want to send Signal a list of contacts - I'd rather not leak that information about my social graph. I understand how they want to use that information for discovery, so they can know who already uses the app.. But for my needs, this isn't necessary. I'd prefer t…

For those who do not understand the economic incentives associated with social graphs, have a chat with Facebook, LinkedIn and Palantir. Or read about the reasons why mobile platforms were forced to implement access control policy for contacts, after apps began bulk-uploading valuable social graph data.

They (OWS) were recently subpoena'd for someone's data and all they could provide where rough timestamps when that user registered and when they last contacted the servers. Unless you think they're lying in response to a subpoena (which would be very serious from a legal perspective), then they really don't store that data.

Of course it would be nice if we didn't have to trust them that this won't change in the future (whether through a court order or their decision doesn't really matter).

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#166

Post by lorenzhs »

lenish wrote: post #87
StavrosK wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, since you presumably want to match a specific user's key, not just find two users with the same key.

It is a similar problem, however: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthday_problem#Same_birthday...

That's still not the problem considered here. You're not asking "does anyone have the key I'm seeing here", you're asking "does this person next to me have the key I'm seeing here". No birthday paradoxes of any kind involved.

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#168

Post by lorenzhs »

kuschku wrote: post #148
Jarwain wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could it be because some of your information is spun/misleading? LibreSignal was abandoned according to their github, first of all. Secondly, the issue is that OWS doesn't want "others" using the servers that they own and maintain for Signal.[1] As far as I understand, they disapprove of people using the name Signal or TextSecure or Redphone for their forks, due to confusion by users who believe that the fork is actu…

> LibreSignal was abandoned according to their github, first of all. Yes, because Moxie threatened in the discussion you linked? > Secondly, the issue is that OWS doesn't want "others" using the servers that they own and maintain for Signal The issue is that Moxie refuses to federate, or allow others the right to develop third party apps interfacing with his server (Which, btw, he can’t prohibit in the EU anyway). >…

You're cherry-picking the bits of Jarwain's response that you like to respond to, ignoring the others, yet complain about the discussion culture and being down-voted (which is not appreciated on here) in your original post.

Moxie is taking issue with others using the name "Signal", as that would lead to confusion. Forking and using your own name and servers is totally okay with him.

And of course you can allow others from distributing apps that use your servers in the EU. There's a difference between using modified code with OWS servers (which might be okay in the EU, IANAL), and distributing apps that interface with OWS servers despite their demand that you do not (which is certainly not okay in the EU).

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#169

Post by lorenzhs »

thomasville wrote: post #122
faktorialas wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree with your general point, but I'm curious, why would having a privacy-focused app be embarassing? I'm curious what kind of attitude you have for it, or what you expect some of your contacts to think of it.

Because it makes me look like a drug dealer. Which is to say it is easy for me to guess why most the people in my contacts who use Signal, use Signal. Some are journalists. Some are tech researchers. The guys with bad jobs who aren't good at computers make me wonder...

Many of my contacts use Signal because some computery person that wants to talk to them kept telling them to use it. They're not techy themselves, but it's not suspicious at all in my opinion.

Re: Disappearing messages for Signal

#170

Post by StavrosK »

newman314 wrote: post #116
StavrosK wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I still use Silent Circle for calls because it is so tiring to talk when the bitrate is low. To be fair, that's a high bar. Our (SC) phone guys are masters at optimizing audio quality. I would be extremely surprised if any other app (encrypted or not) had significantly better audio quality than Silent Phone.

Can you provide some details as to what SC does differently?

I'm a web developer, so I don't really know much, but I know it has to do with our SIP guys losing their minds if the echo canceller is a bit too aggressive on a specific device. They're just very detailed-oriented and want things to be perfect. I swear, one of them is a bat, he can tell I switched phones just because the mic sounds different.
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