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Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

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Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#51

Post by cschep »

malkia wrote: post #50
malkia wrote: post #5

It's out only from the store. There are other ways to install it! Legal ways.

Why am I getting downvoted? If you want Scratch for your students, you can use ad-hoc install for them? Buy a $99 dollar account, sponsored by the school, and install it for them? What is the problem? I understand, and I wish Apple did not put such restrictions, but they've put them. Yet, still there is a way. It's not like with Sony and the latest Ps3 firmware, where even if you want to pay (And I've already paid $6…

Is the code freely available to use to install it? If it's not, then this won't work.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#52

Post by dejb »

cpr wrote: post #15

Now THIS really got my attention. I was holding my nose lightly through all the flap so far, and I'm quite sympathetic to Apple's desire to keep Flash off the platform, but disallowing educational software just because it's running a Smalltalk interpreter? A polite but forceful email to Jobs is on the way...

Why does it have to take a specific concrete example like this to make you sit up and take notice? This is the sort of slow and lazy thinking allows despots of all kinds to take control. I can imagine in nazi Germany 'holding your nose lightly through all the flap about persecution of jews' and then being surprised when they take your neighbor away.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#54

Post by ANH »

dejb wrote: post #52
cpr wrote: post #15

Now THIS really got my attention. I was holding my nose lightly through all the flap so far, and I'm quite sympathetic to Apple's desire to keep Flash off the platform, but disallowing educational software just because it's running a Smalltalk interpreter? A polite but forceful email to Jobs is on the way...

Why does it have to take a specific concrete example like this to make you sit up and take notice? This is the sort of slow and lazy thinking allows despots of all kinds to take control. I can imagine in nazi Germany 'holding your nose lightly through all the flap about persecution of jews' and then being surprised when they take your neighbor away.

I'm guessing you're doing self-parody. If not, see Godwin's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#55

Post by iron_ball »

ANH wrote: post #54
dejb wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does it have to take a specific concrete example like this to make you sit up and take notice? This is the sort of slow and lazy thinking allows despots of all kinds to take control. I can imagine in nazi Germany 'holding your nose lightly through all the flap about persecution of jews' and then being surprised when they take your neighbor away.

I'm guessing you're doing self-parody. If not, see Godwin's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

First they came for Flash, and I did not stand up, because I was not a Flash developer.

...snip...

And when they came for Smalltalk, there was nobody left to stand up for me.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#56

Post by viraptor »

locopati wrote: post #53

So again the question arises - why would you develop for a platform where the rules can change arbitrarily in a way that invalidates your work and possibly cuts into your income stream?

Because you get money while it lasts. If you're fully aware of problem and its consequences - why not just stop worrying and love the bo^W appstore. I'm not sure why would any hobby developer do that though...

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#57

Post by malkia »

cschep wrote: post #51
malkia wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why am I getting downvoted? If you want Scratch for your students, you can use ad-hoc install for them? Buy a $99 dollar account, sponsored by the school, and install it for them? What is the problem? I understand, and I wish Apple did not put such restrictions, but they've put them. Yet, still there is a way. It's not like with Sony and the latest Ps3 firmware, where even if you want to pay (And I've already paid $6…

Is the code freely available to use to install it? If it's not, then this won't work.

http://info.scratch.mit.edu/Source_Code

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#58

Post by GHFigs »

iron_ball wrote: post #55
ANH wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm guessing you're doing self-parody. If not, see Godwin's Law: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_law

First they came for Flash, and I did not stand up, because I was not a Flash developer. ...snip... And when they came for Smalltalk, there was nobody left to stand up for me.

In this case "they" is a company that sells products that you are free to not buy wielding the "weapon" of a development agreement that you are free to not enter into.

Re: Apple removes Scratch from iPad/iPhone/iTouch

#59

Post by endergen »

jstevens85 wrote: post #47
endergen wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree in general with what I take to be your stance, that people who actually get it out there into the mainstream and do it well should be rewarded. And that open markets will always create competition so therefore some strict control is ok if it gets us there. To clarify, I wouldn't expect an academic to patent his work. He wants his works to be freely available to everyone. It's Steve Job's/Apple's right ethical…

>But as a Tools/Interface developer it's so frustrating to not be allowed to commercialize say an IDE that utilizes multi-touch to make software editing/navigation more efficient or enjoyable. There's no reason why you can't implement an IDE on the iPhone/iPad. The only restriction is that you can't compile arbitrary code. I don't want to say too much here because I'm working on a similar idea, but there's really no…

You are right, I hadn't thought of it all the way down. You could still have a code editor/navigator client that remotely accesses code, or locally stores it. But the code is run else where.

This would work fine for say editing a web app's code and then hitting refresh on each save. Until multi-tasking is released in iPhone OS 4.0 this will really require another device with a browser to view the updated code in a browser.

But again, this isn't what I'd call an IDE, it's more of a code editor. No debugging, profiling etc, unless you are connected to a runtime else where. But again this is far less desirable than being able to run/test code without a good networking connection or any connection at all.

Many other interactive environments other than squeak would be possible without these constraints, such as the Code Bubble IDE project: http://www.cs.brown.edu/people/acb/codebubbles_site.htm

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