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The Killer Cats Are Winning

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Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#81

Post by teaearlgraycold »

rwmj wrote: post #38
MiguelVieira wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Summary: > We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually. Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality. Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals.

Also note that this is in the US . Other parts of the world have had wild cat populations for millions of years.

Not domesticated cats.

The US has a few native cats, and I assume has had them for quite a while.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#82

Post by Paul-ish »

Near where my parents live, coyotes have returned. They have been killing a lot of outdoor cats. I wonder if a reintroduction of coyotes to some areas would control cat populations naturally.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#83

Post by dandelany »

kwhitefoot wrote: post #72
ionwake wrote: post #60

I am pretty sure the simplest and most humane solution is... to put a small bell on your cat. I am suprised no one else has said this.

Doesn't work. My cat who died a couple of years ago at the age of 16 had a bell on his collar all his life. I couldn't pick that bell up without it tinkling but Radar could walk from one end of the house to the other, including the stairs, without a sound. Also when hunting he did most of it by waiting for his prey to get close enough so that any noise from the bell was simply the last sound they heard. For a while h…

Countering your anecdotal evidence with some of my own: it works fine for many, many cats. Even if the success rate is <100%, it's worth doing.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#84

Post by city41 »

triplesec wrote: post #28
cowpewter wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an indoor cat it's not. Toxo is only shed by cats for a few weeks after exposure, and the toxo lifecycle can't be completed indoors so your cat will not be reinfected. Unless you have a mouse infestation, in which case I'd be more worried about hantavirus than toxo. Just keep your cats inside, everyone! It's better for the environment, it's better for birds, it's better for the cat, it's better for you.

Indoors is categorically not better for the cats. They're nocturnal predators. Let them hunt as is their desire and way of living. It's like keeping birds in cages and not letting them fly. Or chickens in battery farms. There are so many unhappy cats imprisoned for the benefit of their fluffy -loving captors. If you have cats, you must let them be cats. So here's the rub: we really have to stop keeping so many cats

Exactly. Cats make bad pets. And I say this as an owner of two cats. One of our cats loves people and is very happy to be our pet, the other one, not so much. We feel bad for him and let him go out on our patio as a very modest way to feed his needs. It does help, but he really would prefer to be free.

My wife and I have decided no more cats going forward.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#85

Post by gumby »

smallnamespace wrote: post #79
jahewson wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> healthier lives, with less disease Seems unlikely. Citation needed.

https://www.vetinfo.com/indoor-outdoor-cat-life-expectancy.h... 'A pet that spends more time outdoors may live on average 2 to 3 years less than a cat that lives exclusively indoors.'

Yes but it's not clear that the life expectancy is shortened by disease rather than accident (interactions with cars, coyotes or unpleasant people, for example).

That indoor cats live longer seems reasonably well attested. However here's some anecdata: sum of my parents' 8 indoor/outdoor cats + my 3 indoor/outdoor cats: none have lived less than 13 years (two made it to 18). My parents two indoor-only cats both died before reaching 13. I have assumed the cats that go outside survived due to the low number of vehicles and predators they had to deal with.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#86

Post by gumby »

subtenante wrote: post #24
shagie wrote: post #5

And a counterpoint http://www.npr.org/2016/04/04/473002208/facing-a-growing-rat... That example is why cats were domesticated in the first place. Not having a healthy predator prey relationship in areas leads to public health issues.

> "They totally freak me out," says Courtney Bledsoe, as she sees a rat dart across the street while picking up her son at a Lincoln Park preschool. And we're having rats picking up children at school, now.

That would be a hell of a big rat, no matter what grade in school we're talking about.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#88

Post by oldmanjay »

saidajigumi wrote: post #31
wmeredith wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was the first thing I thought of. We have two fat, lazy house cats, and we will never ever have mice. I grew up on a horse farm. We had Four cats that lived in the barn (12 horse barn) for the exact same reason. They were legitimate badasses, too. We fed them once a day in the winter. Otherwise, they fended for themselves. One of them came in the house one cold winter night when she was about 16 years old. She n…

I've heard multiple stories on this theme: a farm cat that's lived out in the barn and fields for years, often not particularly concerned with humans, one day decides to hang it up and "retire" to a comfortable old age being a cozy house cat. I find this behavior to be so absolutely fascinating .

Not to dispirit you but the idea that mammals get lazier as they get older is a mighty low bar for fascination

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#89

Post by oldmanjay »

c3833174 wrote: post #14

"That beloved pets should not be given the opportunity to kill wildlife for sport is the easy part of this debate." Why not start by extending that to humans as well?

Anyone who believes human hunting is purely evil has never lived in an area overrun by deer

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#90

Post by keithly »

rwmj wrote: post #4

It's worth reading the author's actual peer reviewed paper: http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

I wonder to what extent domestic casts have replaced mustelids (weasels, badgers, etc.) and similar small predators in North America. If there were fewer cats, would there be more mustelids? Would they then have a similar effect on the bird and rodent populations?
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