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Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

calnewport.com

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Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#461
post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I work in a team sized room and much rather would have my own quiet space. I happen to sit next to a "key person" who is constantly having (important) discussions with coworkers that I don't need to or want to hear. I'm really distraction and noise sensitive so I really prefer working from home when there's code to be written.

I say there is a problem within your team (like that "key person" not knowing what is or isn't productive in what he does) that you are hoping to solve through seclusion. Excluding such bad quirks, assuming everyone is acting reasonably (in a tolerant frame of reference), I would say team sized spaces strike a good balance between the peer interaction accessibility and the bad effects of crowd noise.

The problem with our team is that it's not really a team in the traditional sense. We're an engineering office for a multinational and we're a team only in the sense that we have a common manager but all of us pretty much work on different projects, with most of the collaborators being overseas (with a 10 hour timezone difference).

The "key person" is really a key figure and his opinion is valued for a lot of different things, so he's talking a lot to different people. But almost none of it concerns me.

Even if I worked together with the guys I sit next to, I'd prefer that there was a door between me and them. I prefer to work in silence and uninterrupted and if my opinion is required I'd rather work it out before/after lunch or schedule a time slot for it.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#462

I used to work at FB and the huge, open offices were one of my least favourite parts about the job. I worked in the London office for a year and that was actually a little better because it's smaller and generally quieter there, but the three years that I did in the Menlo Park offices were not particularly fun for all the reasons described. It's very difficult to concentrate when there's constant background noise. Me…

I used to work at the Sun offices. Back then, everyone actually got an office. I shared mine as an intern for a while, which I actually kind of preferred, since we were both pretty quiet and good at recognizing when we needed to focus vs talk. I was hired on, he went back to school, so I had a private office after that, which was the norm.

That was the last time I ever had a private office. Funny, it was my must entry level position, right out of school, where I had a private office. Unfortunately the industry trended away from it over time.

Sun did manage open offices well back then, though. There were a number of "drop in" centers that were essentially large open offices. However, Sun ran them carefully. There was a "quiet room" of workstations with no phones, and a general room where people made noise. Occasionally, it would fill up, and someone from sales or another field would figure it was ok to have cell conversations as long as he or she did it in a muted voice. The only thing that saved that room was the office manager, who pretty much had no tolerance for it. If she saw people doing this (and she checked pretty regularly), she'd explain very firmly that the couldn't do it. She didn't care who they were, either, the chain of command really had her back on this.

Unfortunately, open offices rarely work this way. They tend to just chuck everyone into a big room. I don't like earplugs or headphones as a solution, because I don't like it when people can see my back and my screen and I'm unaware that they're standing behind me.

Ultimately, I'd prefer to let the market solve this one. If employees prefer not to work in open offices, or in high tech in general, they can and should choose to work at other companies and/or in other fields. This is, yet again, why I am so opposed to work visas that allow employers to decide what immigrants are allowed to study, what field they're allowed to pursue as a profession, what they are allowed to work on, what work conditions they are allowed to work in, and where they are allowed to live, as a condition of living in the United States. Honestly, I think that if you just gave the workforce basic choice, a lot of this would get sorted out on its own - it's propped up by a system that gives employers monumental power over a large portion of their workforce (if you risk getting deported if you quit your job or try to change fields, you aren't free, and this is reflected in our working conditions).

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Noise-canceling headphones are really hit or miss, though. Like, I can't wear them. They drive me crazy . Ambient noise is not bad. Ambient noise is good! Being in an isolated bubble is the sort of dystopic future-stuff that...ew. No. Do not want. (For a while I thought things like Coffivity were a good idea to restore the ambient noise I was killing out with perpetual headphones...but then I realized what I was doin…

> Noise-canceling headphones are really hit or miss, though. Like, I can't wear them. They drive me crazy. Ambient noise is not bad. Ambient noise is good! Being in an isolated bubble is the sort of dystopic future-stuff that...ew. No. Do not want. My experience is different. I'm a person who is very sensitive towards noise (even in the classroom writing tests was horror). I personally consider silent environment + g…

[deleted]

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#464

I work in an open office, and have been to Facebook's open office campus many times. I love working in an open office, and think Facebook's campus looks excellent. I think the disadvantages of open offices are radically exaggerated by people who have difficulty imagining how easy it is to book a small conference room for yourself for a few hours, to walk away to a hotel desk in a more quiet part of the office, or (mo…

At my job developers can't book conference rooms. Not by design, unless they are super devious, but the room booking software doesn't work on Macs which 90% of devs use. (Sure I could use a vm but I'm not going to install it just to reserve a room)

A moot point because all the new conference "rooms" are just open spaces with bean bag chairs and a projector.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. I'm scared of the virulent backlash against open offices from devs right now. Is "productivity" really the only measure of job satisfaction? I'm more than happy to sacrifice some of my productivity for the sake of feeling more connected to my team, more light, and a general sense of freedom. If my employer agrees, and is willing to tolerate this productivity decrease (as apparently most employers are), the…

> Is "productivity" really the only measure of job satisfaction? Productivity is a side effect of good employees working in a good environment. Programmers aren't satisfied because they're productive; they're productive because they're satisfied.

Yes and "good environment" != "productive environment" for a lot of us if "productive environment" == "quiet dark and isolating".

I'm much more satisfied with light and space, at the expense of noise and productivity.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You? Introvert? I'm not so sure...

Hah, I can believe. I consider myself an introvert too, even though a lot of people in my Hackerspace are utterly convinced I'm one of the more extroverted people they know. All because I can hold a conversation and like doing public talks every now and then. The best description of introvert / extrovert thing I found is that comic strip - http://imgur.com/76HUN . Being an introvert, social interactions cost me energ…

Yeah, it's a cost of mental energy thing, not an inability to socialize.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#467
post #406
post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer open. I've never seen cube farms or offices that have a decent amount of natural light. Also, I seem to be the minority in comments, but I don't mind people talking around me. I don't use my ears/hearing to code, so it doesn't distract me nearly as much as chat windows or anything visual on my laptop. I suppose the real issue is people having interesting conversations around me... But I have headphones and m…

I think there are very different experiences and expectations on what the craft of software engineering is like. Different tasks and organizations require different time budgets for e.g. collaboration and deep work. My coding has very little to with sport-like activity and is more like the task of a lone clocksmith (although we have a team, individuals have quite large chunks of codebase carved for themselves). For s…

As someone who has done lone-wolf development, let me tell you that so many issues go away once you develop a well-functioning team to work on problems collaboratively.

My initial reaction is that there seems to be much bigger issues with the way your company is structured. The words you're using ("lone", "carved", "straining on the edge") suggest a stressful situation where each individual carries their own weight... If that's the case, I can certainly see why you'd be upset by someone else impeding your ability to work. I wouldn't last long in an environment like that, either pushing it to be more collaborative, or just leaving.

I can't imagine any coding that isn't improved by adding collaboration (a great starting point is code reviews... make PRs early and get opinions on rough-cuts). If you don't have this in your current environment, I highly encourage trying to kickstart it... you're really missing out on a great way to remove stress, improve quality, and have more fun.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>When there is a conversation in the room, it's probably related to what you're doing so it's not necessarily distracting you. My rebuttal to this point is the amount of time my previous co-workers would spend discussing lawn care strategies. Overall though, I agree with you. Team sized rooms are a livable compromise, and have some nice upsides while tamping down the downsides of a fully open office.

Not sure how that is a rebuttal unless you work for a lawn care company.

You're conception of it being a rebuttal is exactly wrong. My point was, my team would spend a lot of time talking about things that weren't related to work or my interests, so it was indistinguishable from any of the myriad other distractions present in an open office. Basically: If you're co-located with 1 person or more, you will be subjected to distractions you have no interest in and serve no purpose for yourself or your team.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I just found the magic pair, because with them in I can't even hear my baby cry.

I am also interested in learning which headphones you use and added this comment to signal there's more of us that are interested.

I tried to reply to you but HN blocked me. See your sibling comment for my response.
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