Live data from Hacker News

The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

smithsonianmag.com

241–250 of 352 posts

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#241
post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the test is judging mindset, something that changes very regularly, of course the results will change as well. This is akin to saying testing blood sugar is worthless because the result varies throughout the day.

C'mon man. It purports to test personality, not mindset. It doesn't say "Run this after meals and first thing in the morning between meals to get an idea of your mindset throughout the day." Sheesh.

What is the substantial difference between those two things?

The only assertion I have to disprove here is that the test is "worthless".

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment works surprisingly well like this: As an individual (Taurus) thoroughly interested in astrology, I often see this discussion brought up. As a short rebuttal, I feel as though many of those who tout astrology as a comprehensive personality test fail to understand what astrology attempts to identify. While the "value-add" is more subjective, I'm going to go ahead and say it's not as useless as this article…

They are not remotely comparable, Meyers Briggs is descriptive, Astrology is prescriptive and it's the prescriptive part that is nonsense. There is no connection to your personality and your birth date. Meyers Briggs is a classification system that groups similar personalities, it does not prescribe what your personality is or should be.

Meyers Briggs is meant to be descriptive, but the preponderance of evidence shows that it is not, at all. In the corporate world discussion of MBTI very quickly becomes idiotically prescriptive. In my line if I see someone discuss MBTI with any level of passion or enthusiasm I have learned to distrust their evaluations of personalities and strengths/weaknesses, whether they refer to themselves or others.

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#243

As an individual (INFJ) thoroughly interested in Myers-Briggs, I often see this discussion brought up. As a short rebuttal, I feel as though many of those who tout Myers-Briggs as a comprehensive personality test fail to understand what the Myers-Briggs attempts to identify. While the "value-add" is more subjective, I'm going to go ahead and say it's not as useless as this article claims. While I don't think anyone (…

Your comment works surprisingly well like this: As an individual (Taurus) thoroughly interested in astrology, I often see this discussion brought up. As a short rebuttal, I feel as though many of those who tout astrology as a comprehensive personality test fail to understand what astrology attempts to identify. While the "value-add" is more subjective, I'm going to go ahead and say it's not as useless as this article…

There are a lot of worthless measures we use out there. Body Mass Index (BMI) is another one. This scale was developed in the mid 1800s and you can do a simple search to find tons of criticism on it. If you're overweight/obese, you will have a high BMI, but not everyone with high BMI is overweight (especially if you're very tall or very short).

Measuring Cholesterol is another one, since you can't actually change cholesterol via diet and it has no relation to heart disease either (source: http://www.health.harvard.edu/blog/panel-suggests-stop-warni... ). But the pharmaceutical industry still wants doctors to prescribe Statins and pours tons of money into advertising them to people and doctors, even though they're terrible for you and worthless.

It's troubling when industry grasps onto these measures and makes business models out of them. Wide spread acceptance of measures like these moves them out of the realm of homeopathy or astrology and into the realm of what people believe as relevant scientific measure. They benefit industry, but not the individual. Advertising allows that industry to continue to grow at the expense of good relevant data.

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your comment works surprisingly well like this: As an individual (Taurus) thoroughly interested in astrology, I often see this discussion brought up. As a short rebuttal, I feel as though many of those who tout astrology as a comprehensive personality test fail to understand what astrology attempts to identify. While the "value-add" is more subjective, I'm going to go ahead and say it's not as useless as this article…

They are not remotely comparable, Meyers Briggs is descriptive, Astrology is prescriptive and it's the prescriptive part that is nonsense. There is no connection to your personality and your birth date. Meyers Briggs is a classification system that groups similar personalities, it does not prescribe what your personality is or should be.

> Meyers Briggs is description

It's impossible to describe personalities without implying value judgments.

I randomly took the first Google link found under 'Myers Briggs' and ended up here:

https://www.16personalities.com/intj-personality

'Ironically, it is often best for them to remain where they are comfortable – out of the spotlight...'

https://www.16personalities.com/infp-strengths-and-weaknesse...

'Too Idealistic – INFPs often take their idealism too far, setting themselves up for disappointment as, again and again, evil things happen in the world.'

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#245
The sad thing about these tests is that it puts people in closed boxes. I've used to be an introvert, now I'm an extrovert. Depending on my mood, tiredness, hour of the day, I'd answer differently a test. People are more complex and have richer personalities than 2^4.

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#246
post #214

Personality typing is obviously incredibly shaky ground because of the huge potential for the suggestion bias, but we shouldn't throw out the baby with the bathwater. It's almost obvious that there are patterns of human behaviour that are often distinctive and repetitive across society. It's hard to identify these regularities and we should be sceptical about any blatant simplifications, but we shouldn't stop trying…

The wikipedia article has way too little psychology references (I counted none - did I miss some?), and way too many theology references. No problem with the later one, except that it should bias researchers into getting many of the first ones, yet those are missing. I tend to doubt classifications with dimensions that lack opposing extremes. Yes, I can imagine how is a person with heavy reforming personality, but ho…

Indeed the Wikipedia article doesn't paint it in a great light. The system itself seems to be quite old, but I'd love to see some serious studies of it. The only thing I can add here is that our understanding of human mind is really basic at this point and we have to wisely balance between what we can already measure and our intuitions. That's how all sciences evolved.

I understand your point about classifications, but it assumes that Enneagram spectrum is a result of random distribution of X values in some vector. In such case indeed each dimension should have 2 extremes. However, according to my vague intuition Enneagram is somewhat different. Rather than describing the whole space in which each solution (personality type) is equally possible, it seems to describe specific points in the space that seem to act like attractors. For some reason these specific behavioural patterns crystalize, because they tend to create very specific meaning/identity and way of making sense of the world around us. You can't create an identity/self around 'lack of something', it needs to be some specific quality that allows to interpret reality in given fashion.

The example you bring up (type 1, the Reformer) is not about reforming vs not reforming, but rather about seeing the world in terms of perfection: this is perfect and this is not perfect. Hence they may end up as a reformer or just someone overly pedantic. Other types have completely different perspective (eg. this is safe and this is not safe), so in a way each type is a separate according to which a given person interprets the same reality.

This is very subtle and more complex than M-B. In M-B we have one 'objective' world and set of values in which various types rank differently. In Enneagram each type has a different way of defining the world/experience so in each case the measuring axes are different. It's as if you had different formal systems based on different axioms - each would end up with different consequences and you wouldn't be able to compare their statements directly. You'd have to compare the properties of the systems as a whole.

Your last point about infancy - that was my mistake, I shouldn't write 'early childhood' (edited). The theories I heard mentioned some formative, sometimes traumatic (single, or repetivie) experiences in childhood/adolescence that shaped given perspective.

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#247
We used a system called Facet5 at work once. I'm still not convinced these types of things are actually worth the money in terms of productivity gains but it did seem to do a decent job addressing the biggest flaws with the MBTI (Rates things on a scale and uses a 5th scale that determines the expression of the other 4).

Again, not sure if it actually made any difference in interactions with coworkers but it was kinda interesting.

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#249

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a conversation piece, sure, it is an interesting framework. As a tool, though, its utility remains doubtful. Its test-retest reliability is very low, meaning that, if you give the same person the test at two different times, you're likely to get two different results. This strongly suggests that, while the test might capture aspects of a person's personality, it's also functioning like a glorified mood ring. Witho…

Seems like a great tool for a science that draws conclusions first and looks for evidence later, as I've been led to believe has been happening in psychology.

I wouldn't drop this one on psychology's doorstep - the MBTI has been pretty consistently critcized by the mainstream psychology community for decades.

Re: The Myers-Briggs Personality Test Is Pretty Much Meaningless

#250
post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh absolutely. In fact I think there are those situations. My argument isn't that MBTI is effective in all individual cases to gauge much about them. My argument is that the ineffectiveness of MBTI at providing useful information to people on average has not been established. It's not been well researched in the first place and the research I've seen has been quite awful in their setup and analysis. The question isn'…

Well, since we know that 50% of people score different types upon retaking the test, that should be enough to identify the prevalence of these problem. As for signal-to-noise, mbti is a useful tool for measuring the traits it measures, it just, for some reason, cuts the signal in half by removing the percentage from the label. Without the percentages, you can never assume a persons traits don't hover at that middle g…

If 50% of people score the exact same type upon retaking the test, I consider that great evidence that there is relatively stable information in the indicator. As a baseline, remember that if the distribution of results was uniform, a null model would expect something on the order of 6.25% if the noise really drowned out all the signal.
Post reply on HN