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The Killer Cats Are Winning

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Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#31

Post by saidajigumi »

wmeredith wrote: post #13
shagie wrote: post #5

And a counterpoint http://www.npr.org/2016/04/04/473002208/facing-a-growing-rat... That example is why cats were domesticated in the first place. Not having a healthy predator prey relationship in areas leads to public health issues.

This was the first thing I thought of. We have two fat, lazy house cats, and we will never ever have mice. I grew up on a horse farm. We had Four cats that lived in the barn (12 horse barn) for the exact same reason. They were legitimate badasses, too. We fed them once a day in the winter. Otherwise, they fended for themselves. One of them came in the house one cold winter night when she was about 16 years old. She n…

I've heard multiple stories on this theme: a farm cat that's lived out in the barn and fields for years, often not particularly concerned with humans, one day decides to hang it up and "retire" to a comfortable old age being a cozy house cat. I find this behavior to be so absolutely fascinating.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#32

Post by noonespecial »

subtenante wrote: post #24
shagie wrote: post #5

And a counterpoint http://www.npr.org/2016/04/04/473002208/facing-a-growing-rat... That example is why cats were domesticated in the first place. Not having a healthy predator prey relationship in areas leads to public health issues.

> "They totally freak me out," says Courtney Bledsoe, as she sees a rat dart across the street while picking up her son at a Lincoln Park preschool. And we're having rats picking up children at school, now.

And if they are going to pick up children, the least they could do is cross the street carefully at the designated crosswalk rather than just darting willy-nilly. Rats these days...

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#33

Post by lnanek2 »

> This is a ridiculous point to waffle on: pet cats should no more be allowed to roam around at will than should pet dogs, horses, pythons, or pot-bellied pigs.

Actually, my Dad grew up on a mountain where, every day after school, he would come home and gather up the pig and cows that had been let free to eat for the day. So there's certainly use cases for letting a pig roam free and gather some forage. By the time I was growing up we had chickens, which had to be brought in at night to prevent predators from eating them, but otherwise could roam the yard to eat worms and the like.

Also a horse that kept the grass in the yard short without us having to mow it. There were goats, but they weren't allowed free mostly because they went and ate mountain laurel and poisoned themselves.

It's kind of strange to take a working animal like a cat, bred for pest control, and stick in a little indoor room and never let them out. Did farmers originally lock up their barn cats in the barns? I don't think so. It's actually a problem when they accidentally get locked up in a shed or a car or something, because they aren't out doing their jobs.

Seems nuts to me that the author belittles letting them outside.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#34

Post by hitekker »

subtenante wrote: post #24
shagie wrote: post #5

And a counterpoint http://www.npr.org/2016/04/04/473002208/facing-a-growing-rat... That example is why cats were domesticated in the first place. Not having a healthy predator prey relationship in areas leads to public health issues.

> "They totally freak me out," says Courtney Bledsoe, as she sees a rat dart across the street while picking up her son at a Lincoln Park preschool. And we're having rats picking up children at school, now.

For those interested, the ambiguous phrasing of the quote is called a "dangling participle"

https://www.usu.edu/markdamen/WritingGuide/10dangpt.htm

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/dangling-...

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#35

Post by MiguelVieira »

rwmj wrote: post #4

It's worth reading the author's actual peer reviewed paper: http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

Summary:

> We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually. Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality. Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#36

Post by mikestew »

jp_sc wrote: post #25
lowleveldrone wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are over 250 species of bird present for at least part of the year in the city where I live, which has a population of 880000.

Rats with wings

He said "birds" not "bats". If you're going to be snarky, at least get the classification right.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#37

Post by mikestew »

lnanek2 wrote: post #33

> This is a ridiculous point to waffle on: pet cats should no more be allowed to roam around at will than should pet dogs, horses, pythons, or pot-bellied pigs. Actually, my Dad grew up on a mountain where, every day after school, he would come home and gather up the pig and cows that had been let free to eat for the day. So there's certainly use cases for letting a pig roam free and gather some forage. By the time I…

Actually, my Dad grew up on a mountain where, every day after school, he would come home and gather up the pig and cows that had been let free to eat for the day.

The statement you quoted said cats "should be no more allowed to roam than ". Your father's livestock were allowed to roam. Ergo, maybe the author wasn't talking about the farm your father grew up on. Something something false equivalencies or something.

Did farmers originally lock up their barn cats in the barns?

Did Jesus have a pet cat? No. Cats are the devil. Or maybe the author was not prescribing a one-size-fits-all solution.

We have a litany of examples of "Europeans brings domestic cats to newly-explored island, ecological devastation ensues", I don't think we need to digress with stories unrelated to the environments to which the author refers (which I gather to be urban and suburban environments).

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#38

Post by rwmj »

MiguelVieira wrote: post #35
rwmj wrote: post #4

It's worth reading the author's actual peer reviewed paper: http://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380

Summary: > We estimate that free-ranging domestic cats kill 1.3–4.0 billion birds and 6.3–22.3 billion mammals annually. Un-owned cats, as opposed to owned pets, cause the majority of this mortality. Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals.

Also note that this is in the US.

Other parts of the world have had wild cat populations for millions of years.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#39

Post by jhbadger »

triplesec wrote: post #28
cowpewter wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have an indoor cat it's not. Toxo is only shed by cats for a few weeks after exposure, and the toxo lifecycle can't be completed indoors so your cat will not be reinfected. Unless you have a mouse infestation, in which case I'd be more worried about hantavirus than toxo. Just keep your cats inside, everyone! It's better for the environment, it's better for birds, it's better for the cat, it's better for you.

Indoors is categorically not better for the cats. They're nocturnal predators. Let them hunt as is their desire and way of living. It's like keeping birds in cages and not letting them fly. Or chickens in battery farms. There are so many unhappy cats imprisoned for the benefit of their fluffy -loving captors. If you have cats, you must let them be cats. So here's the rub: we really have to stop keeping so many cats

That's exactly like saying humans ought to only live in the savannah of Africa as hunters and gatherers. Just because that's where humans evolved doesn't mean that that is the only way they are "supposed" to live, nor is where they are "happiest". For starters, humans in civilization and indoor cats live a heck of a lot longer and don't have to worry about getting eaten by predators.

Re: The Killer Cats Are Winning

#40

Post by mikestew »

shagie wrote: post #5

And a counterpoint http://www.npr.org/2016/04/04/473002208/facing-a-growing-rat... That example is why cats were domesticated in the first place. Not having a healthy predator prey relationship in areas leads to public health issues.

Not having a healthy predator prey relationship in areas leads to public health issues.

But at the first coyote or cougar sighting in the suburbs, the rifles come out. And then we wonder where all those feral cats came from.

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