Apple Responds to Dash Controversy • Hacker News Board

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#161

Post by matt4077 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:13 AM UTC

davemel37 wrote: post #155

ceor4 wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why Does Apple NEED an acknowledgment that they didn't do anything wrong? What difference would it make? I get what you're saying, but if Apples gets hammered with bad publicity every time their anti-fraud team does the right thing, they're going to stop doing the right thing. Especially as this case is going to be cited for years to come, it's important apple has something to point to and say: "We didn't just arbi…

>"We didn't just arbitrarily ban the account, it was involved in manipulating our reviews" >anti-fraud team does the right thing That's not what happened though. What happened is that Apple has their internal tools to link fraudulent accounts, to keep out bad actors, and this "good" account got caught in that web. You can just as easily argue that he didn't actually do anything wrong. After all, if he did Apple would…

I think when you sign-up, and the only ID they get is your credit card, it's pretty obvious that the account will be linked to you.

From the call, it appears that Apple only wanted a clarification in that direction, i. e. "I should not have given my drunk little brother the car keys".

They're not reacting from a "bruised ego", since a professional PR team doesn't get emotional in that sense.

They feel that the initial accusations have created actual damage for Apple's image, and they want him to stop the pitchfork-wielding mob.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#162

Post by newsat13 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:25 AM UTC

newsat13 wrote: post #102

Mithaldu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here's Kapeli's explanation of what happened: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story !!! it includes a recording of a phone call with Apple !!! Edit: After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him. I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. Here's the HN submission…

Apple is so childish. It's just a single developer against a whole company. Is it so hard for a company to just bury what happened and move on?

Why the downvotes?

OK.

Apple is awesome and behaving like a proper adult. They are rightfully flexing their muscles and making sure that everyone knows that they are in the right! I wish every corporation would make it as part of their vision to set the record straight against indie developers. World is such a better place thanks to this controversy.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#163

Post by fenomas » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:28 AM UTC

Meta: at times like this Apple is hurt by its policy of doing zero Developer Relations.

If there was somebody - anybody - in Apple who spoke with a voice developers trusted, right now they could be explaining what in hell's going on. Having Apple Marketing leak something to somebody who leaks it to Gruber, who then reports it as hearsay, is a damned shoddy substitute.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#164

Post by Hadi_Asiaie » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:37 AM UTC

jamesk_au wrote: post #77

In telling the other side of the story, the Dash developer published his (apparently secret) recording of a 7-minute long telephone call he had with a person at Apple who purports to be speaking on behalf of Phil Schiller.[1] Leaving aside whatever inferences might be drawn from the fact that the developer saw fit to record and publish the recording in the first place, here's a brief summary of what was said: - There…

In one part of the conversation, they mentioned that the accounts used the same bank account(Not only credit card). I assume it means the bank account that the developers is get paid with. That's even more convincing that accounts were linked. Note that you can use "arbitrary" bank accounts to get paid with(Source: I'm an apple developer.)

Also The apple guy said it uses same test devices. As usual the devil is in details, it's important if they still uses the same devices and in what extent.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#165

Post by pier25 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:40 AM UTC

ceor4 wrote: post #149

davemel37 wrote: post #144

This whole story just comes off as a bunch of bruised egos too proud to get out of their own way. They both agree in principle that DASH should be reinstated, and clearly it being reinstated is in both sides best interests. Why Does Apple NEED an acknowledgment that they didn't do anything wrong? What difference would it make? Why can't Kapeli just acknowledge that he was associated with a bad actor in Apple's system…

> Why Does Apple NEED an acknowledgment that they didn't do anything wrong? What difference would it make? I get what you're saying, but if Apples gets hammered with bad publicity every time their anti-fraud team does the right thing, they're going to stop doing the right thing. Especially as this case is going to be cited for years to come, it's important apple has something to point to and say: "We didn't just arbi…

But if Apple is ready to admit him back into the dev program, then the anti fraud team didn't do the right thing.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#166

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:41 AM UTC

Mithaldu wrote: post #62

jwilcoxson wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately The Loop isn't much of a news site, more of a controlled Apple leak blog. Dalrymple has gotten to the point of being a complete Apple shill. Edit: Compare the tone of the Loop article to Daring Fireballs: http://daringfireball.net/2016/10/apple_dash_controversy Gruber takes a much more unbiased approach, supported well. The Loop article reads like a statement from the Principal read by your teacher.

And here's Kapeli's explanation of what happened: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story !!! it includes a recording of a phone call with Apple !!! Edit: After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him. I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. Here's the HN submission…

[deleted]

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#167

Post by pfarnsworth » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:45 AM UTC

abalone wrote: post #153

jzl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No excuse, sorry, especially since it's not at all clear that he's not lying. I'm not saying he is but it can't be ruled out. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, if it's true that he did innocently help out a relative and had absolutely no idea what that person was up to, then why not show some contrition and just get the problem resolved? If I bring my cousin with me to a party at a friend's house and he trash…

That is a bad analogy. This is case of mistaken identity, not a bad referral. Ask yourself, why are not giving this respected developer the benefit of the doubt? A better analogy would be: You loaned your underage friend your ID 4 years ago and forgot about it. They proceeded to behave badly at a bar over a period of years without your knowledge. Then the bar owner confuses your identity based solely on that ID, desp…

This is also a bad analogy. The other account who is supposedly outside of the control of Kapeli, is involved in thousands of fraudulent ratings manipulations of Kapeli's apps. How likely is it that if the account were so totally out of Kapeli that this cousin would waste their time doing this? It's highly unlikely.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#168

Post by protomyth » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:49 AM UTC

This is the part I'm unclear on:

What Apple has done: on Friday they told me they’d reactivate my account if I’d make a blog post admitting some wrongdoing. I told them I can’t do that, because I did nothing wrong. On Saturday they told me that they are fine with me writing the truth about what happened, and that if I did that, my account would be restored. Saturday night I sent a blog post draft to Apple and have since waited for their approval.

Tonight Apple decided to accuse me of manipulating the App Store in public via a spokesperson.

That makes me wonder about what the heck happened?

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#169

Post by newscracker » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:52 AM UTC

x0x0 wrote: post #25

xsmasher wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they're in an arms race with review spammers, and telling the spammers how they were detected causes them to evolve new, undetected behaviors. It might not be fair, but it's logical.

While Apple understandably may be very reluctant to disclose review validation / fraud detection methods, they could certainly show some trusted media figure -- Marco, some other popular ios developer, maybe even Gruber -- some detailed bit of proof and put this controversy to rest. If, indeed, they have any proof.

That would be pointless because these people would be accused of being shills who would always sing praises of Apple. There's no easy way to handle giving away the proof and having an expectation that it would indeed help Apple. Depending on the material, there could be nuances that could be interpreted out of context…the context being the entire chain of events and internal and external communications that took place.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#170

Post by davemel37 » Tue, Oct 11, 2016, 4:56 AM UTC

matt4077 wrote: post #161

davemel37 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"We didn't just arbitrarily ban the account, it was involved in manipulating our reviews" >anti-fraud team does the right thing That's not what happened though. What happened is that Apple has their internal tools to link fraudulent accounts, to keep out bad actors, and this "good" account got caught in that web. You can just as easily argue that he didn't actually do anything wrong. After all, if he did Apple would…

I think when you sign-up, and the only ID they get is your credit card, it's pretty obvious that the account will be linked to you. From the call, it appears that Apple only wanted a clarification in that direction, i. e. "I should not have given my drunk little brother the car keys". They're not reacting from a "bruised ego", since a professional PR team doesn't get emotional in that sense. They feel that the initia…

I dont know who is dealing with this on Apples side...but its a mistake to think brands, executives, employees and even PR agencies dont get emotional and react from a bruised ego.

I bet the PR costs exceed the actual damage in this case. If they were really afraid of damage, they wouldnt come out swinging, they would simply apologize for banning the account and the public would forgive them instantly.

Both sides are acting against their own interests IMO.