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Dash developer's response to Apple's response

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Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#101

Post by interpol_p »

Mithaldu wrote: post #99
interpol_p wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you equating Apple's willingness reinstate his account with an admission that there was no wrongdoing? The wrongdoing here is that he opened multiple accounts that could legally be linked to him and allowed one of them to be used to defraud the App Store. Apple could see that as wrongdoing while being sympathetic to his story that he forgot about it / lost control of it and so allow him to reinstate his accou…

> he opened multiple accounts You got your facts wrong. He did not do that.

At the very least he allowed his credit card to be used in the enrolling of multiple accounts. We don't actually know whether he went through the sign up procedure for both accounts — he very well may have, you don't know either.

But in either case, Apple may have viewed this as the wrongdoing.

So the same question applies to you: why are you equating Apple's willingness to reinstate his account with an admission that there was no wrongdoing?

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#103

Post by [deleted] »

Mithaldu wrote: post #99
interpol_p wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you equating Apple's willingness reinstate his account with an admission that there was no wrongdoing? The wrongdoing here is that he opened multiple accounts that could legally be linked to him and allowed one of them to be used to defraud the App Store. Apple could see that as wrongdoing while being sympathetic to his story that he forgot about it / lost control of it and so allow him to reinstate his accou…

> he opened multiple accounts You got your facts wrong. He did not do that.

[deleted]

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#104

Post by Mithaldu »

interpol_p wrote: post #101
Mithaldu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> he opened multiple accounts You got your facts wrong. He did not do that.

At the very least he allowed his credit card to be used in the enrolling of multiple accounts. We don't actually know whether he went through the sign up procedure for both accounts — he very well may have, you don't know either. But in either case, Apple may have viewed this as the wrongdoing. So the same question applies to you: why are you equating Apple's willingness to reinstate his account with an admission tha…

> Apple may have viewed this as the wrongdoing.

It is expressly permitted by their guide lines to use another person's credit card to start one's own account as long as one provides govt id: https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/ Please get your facts straight before trying to get into an argument.

As to your question: If there was any wrongdoing, which Apple at first staunchly insisted there was, Apple would not even bother to talk to him, much less offer any redress.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#106

Post by interpol_p »

Mithaldu wrote: post #104
interpol_p wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At the very least he allowed his credit card to be used in the enrolling of multiple accounts. We don't actually know whether he went through the sign up procedure for both accounts — he very well may have, you don't know either. But in either case, Apple may have viewed this as the wrongdoing. So the same question applies to you: why are you equating Apple's willingness to reinstate his account with an admission tha…

> Apple may have viewed this as the wrongdoing. It is expressly permitted by their guide lines to use another person's credit card to start one's own account as long as one provides govt id: https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/ Please get your facts straight before trying to get into an argument. As to your question: If there was any wrongdoing, which Apple at first staunchly insisted there was, A…

I'm not arguing that the guidelines don't permit one to use another person's credit card.

I'm suggesting that if the account goes on to commit fraud then Apple may view that as wrongdoing. That is, the developer loaning out their credit card should be more responsible. Can you not see that this is a possibility?

And if this is a possibility then you might also see how Apple could allow the developer to reinstate their account because they are sympathetic to the reasons behind it happening. It doesn't have to mean that no wrongdoing took place.

It simply means: "We understand there was no intent to commit fraud, but it still happened, so we'll let you have your account back as long as you clear up how and why this happened on your blog."

Edit: Why would Apple not talk to him if there was any wrongdoing? I have been in a position where Apple has talked to me after assuming I was involved in wrongdoing. I was able to clear it up because they talked to me about it.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#107

Post by Mithaldu »

interpol_p wrote: post #106
Mithaldu wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Apple may have viewed this as the wrongdoing. It is expressly permitted by their guide lines to use another person's credit card to start one's own account as long as one provides govt id: https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/ Please get your facts straight before trying to get into an argument. As to your question: If there was any wrongdoing, which Apple at first staunchly insisted there was, A…

I'm not arguing that the guidelines don't permit one to use another person's credit card. I'm suggesting that if the account goes on to commit fraud then Apple may view that as wrongdoing. That is, the developer loaning out their credit card should be more responsible. Can you not see that this is a possibility? And if this is a possibility then you might also see how Apple could allow the developer to reinstate thei…

> That is, the developer loaning out their credit card should be more responsible. Can you not see that this is a possibility?

No, that is absolutely dificulous to me, and if it were the case, then the guidelines must state that, which they don't.

> Why would Apple not talk to him

Because they already told him they would not when they thought there was nothing in question.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#108

Post by interpol_p »

Mithaldu wrote: post #107
interpol_p wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not arguing that the guidelines don't permit one to use another person's credit card. I'm suggesting that if the account goes on to commit fraud then Apple may view that as wrongdoing. That is, the developer loaning out their credit card should be more responsible. Can you not see that this is a possibility? And if this is a possibility then you might also see how Apple could allow the developer to reinstate thei…

> That is, the developer loaning out their credit card should be more responsible. Can you not see that this is a possibility? No, that is absolutely dificulous to me, and if it were the case, then the guidelines must state that, which they don't. > Why would Apple not talk to him Because they already told him they would not when they thought there was nothing in question.

> the guidelines must state that, which they don't.

Why must they state that? It's a fairly obscure edge case that they probably didn't predict. There aren't going to be guidelines for every conceivable possibility of how a cluster of Apple developer accounts can be (mis)used.

> Because they already told him they would not when they thought there was nothing in question.

Your claim is that if Apple even talks to the developer, then there must be no wrongdoing. I disagree with that in this case and from personal experience. Apple's developer relations people are generally able to understand and sympathise with extraordinary circumstances. Such as they did in this case.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#109

Post by trymas »

rhapsodic wrote: post #63

"What I’ve done: 3-4 years ago I helped a relative get started by paying for her Apple’s Developer Program Membership using my credit card. I also handed her test hardware that I no longer needed. From then on those accounts were linked in the eyes of Apple. Once that account was involved with review manipulation, my account was closed." Sounds a little fishy to me. I'm not saying that he was aware of or involved in…

Also, aren't credit cards valid for 4 years? Either he had completely new card at the time or it's a bit fishy.

Re: Dash developer's response to Apple's response

#110

Post by Twisell »

Mithaldu wrote: post #67
eridius wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't make any sense. Are you saying that Apple admits to certain beliefs, and to certain facts that contradict those beliefs, in the same call? Because I'm pretty sure they don't. They explain that the accounts were linked and that they don't think they made a mistake in linking those accounts. And they offered the developer a way to unlink the accounts and restore his account without the developer having to…

> Are you saying that Apple admits to certain beliefs, and to certain facts that contradict those beliefs, in the same call? Yes, and it boils down to one thing: Either the termination of his account was correct, and should be upheld; or it was wrong, and should be rescinded. There are many times in life when things are in a range of grey between black and white, but this case is entirely black and white. Either they…

The fact that they are willing to reinstate him show only on thing, a good customer policy.

And this is quite a similar to what you might experience if you ever go to a Genius Bar when you are somewhere in a range of grey as I once was.

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