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Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

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Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#151

Post by Hadi_Asiaie »

galacticpony wrote: post #100
Mithaldu wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please read and listen again. He did not register the account, nor use his credentials (if he had, apple's contact attempts would've reached him). He only paid for it, and donated hardware.

The bank account used is credentials and Apple considers both accounts to belong to (quote) "the same legal entity" based on that fact. This is the way Apple conducts business.

No. You can use a different bank account to get paid and use a different name for your developer account from credit card used. You can even use a prepaid credit card(But you have to provide ID). In this case, it's clear that the account names were different. Also it seems the bank accounts to get payment from apple were different(Otherwise they would mention it). And the only links were the credit card and some devices(only apple and the developer know how many devices and in some extent)

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#152

Post by matt4077 »

[deleted] wrote: post #140
jzl wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No excuse, sorry, especially since it's not at all clear that he's not lying. I'm not saying he is but it can't be ruled out. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, if it's true that he did innocently help out a relative and had absolutely no idea what that person was up to, then why not show some contrition and just get the problem resolved? If I bring my cousin with me to a party at a friend's house and he trash…

[deleted]

You can get a tool to extract a license key on the dev's website.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#153

Post by abalone »

jzl wrote: post #132
abalone wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may be hard to relate to from a First World context, but Kapeli lives in Romania where only 27% of the population owns bank accounts yet alone credit cards.[1] In many parts of the world, financial products are shared by families, even extended families. This does not completely absolve Kapeli, but the bigger problem here is that Kapeli is (was) a top developer on Apple's platform and had oodles of credibility.…

No excuse, sorry, especially since it's not at all clear that he's not lying. I'm not saying he is but it can't be ruled out. Even giving him the benefit of the doubt, if it's true that he did innocently help out a relative and had absolutely no idea what that person was up to, then why not show some contrition and just get the problem resolved? If I bring my cousin with me to a party at a friend's house and he trash…

That is a bad analogy. This is case of mistaken identity, not a bad referral. Ask yourself, why are not giving this respected developer the benefit of the doubt?

A better analogy would be: You loaned your underage friend your ID 4 years ago and forgot about it. They proceeded to behave badly at a bar over a period of years without your knowledge. Then the bar owner confuses your identity based solely on that ID, despite your picture looking nothing like them and you being a well known and respected regular, and bans you without notice. Then they admit it wasn't you that trashed the place, but won't let you in until you state that the bar made no mistake in confusing you for that person.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#154

Post by Hadi_Asiaie »

galacticpony wrote: post #111
Mithaldu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed the way they do, but you are saying he should've known that, when he had in fact no way of knowing.

It is certainly knowable that the identity on the credit card is part of the verification process and that it must match his own. If the name he entered wasn't his own, the verification would likely have been denied: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6238222?tstart=0 That's why I'm suspicious as to which name he actually entered.

No, The name of the account and the credit card holder can be different.You just need to provide government ID and your memebershit will be delayed: https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/

In this case, it seems the two accounts used different names otherwise they would mentioned it already because it's huge evidence that the accounts are linked.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#155

Post by davemel37 »

ceor4 wrote: post #149
davemel37 wrote: post #144

This whole story just comes off as a bunch of bruised egos too proud to get out of their own way. They both agree in principle that DASH should be reinstated, and clearly it being reinstated is in both sides best interests. Why Does Apple NEED an acknowledgment that they didn't do anything wrong? What difference would it make? Why can't Kapeli just acknowledge that he was associated with a bad actor in Apple's system…

> Why Does Apple NEED an acknowledgment that they didn't do anything wrong? What difference would it make? I get what you're saying, but if Apples gets hammered with bad publicity every time their anti-fraud team does the right thing, they're going to stop doing the right thing. Especially as this case is going to be cited for years to come, it's important apple has something to point to and say: "We didn't just arbi…

>"We didn't just arbitrarily ban the account, it was involved in manipulating our reviews"

>anti-fraud team does the right thing

That's not what happened though. What happened is that Apple has their internal tools to link fraudulent accounts, to keep out bad actors, and this "good" account got caught in that web. You can just as easily argue that he didn't actually do anything wrong. After all, if he did Apple wouldn't even consider reinstating him. The fact that Apple linked the accounts internally doesn't actually point to any guilt or wrongdoing...It could even be pointed to Apple's policies arbitrarily hurting the little guy.

I can see both sides very clearly and I can see a middle ground very clearly. The only thing stopping this from being resolved is "bruised egos" on both sides.

Edit: Added in second quote

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#157

Post by Hadi_Asiaie »

galacticpony wrote: post #123
Mithaldu wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Suspicion is fine with me. You could ask him via his twitter account. :)

I don't use twitter, but here is a tweet that suggests it isn't just about the credit card: https://twitter.com/JamesNnnn/status/785645305396027392

That's interesting and kinda important evidence that it's more about credit card and some devices.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#158

Post by Hadi_Asiaie »

galacticpony wrote: post #103
Mithaldu wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As i told you on your other post: He didn't register it. He only paid for the initial fee and donated hardware.

It's unclear whether he registered it himself, but it doesn't matter, since according to the terms of service: "You can choose from the payment methods presented during your membership purchase. If you are paying by credit card and enrolling as an individual, you must use your own credit card to complete your purchase. If you do not, your enrollment will be delayed and you will be asked for a copy of your government-…

At least he did not use the same name. The two accounts use different names, otherwise apple would mention it because it's a huge evidence that the accounts are linked :)

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#159

Post by Hadi_Asiaie »

galacticpony wrote: post #103
Mithaldu wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As i told you on your other post: He didn't register it. He only paid for the initial fee and donated hardware.

It's unclear whether he registered it himself, but it doesn't matter, since according to the terms of service: "You can choose from the payment methods presented during your membership purchase. If you are paying by credit card and enrolling as an individual, you must use your own credit card to complete your purchase. If you do not, your enrollment will be delayed and you will be asked for a copy of your government-…

At least he did not use the same name. The two accounts use different names, otherwise apple would mention it because it's a huge evidence that the accounts are linked :)

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#160

Post by matt4077 »

davemel37 wrote: post #144

This whole story just comes off as a bunch of bruised egos too proud to get out of their own way. They both agree in principle that DASH should be reinstated, and clearly it being reinstated is in both sides best interests. Why Does Apple NEED an acknowledgment that they didn't do anything wrong? What difference would it make? Why can't Kapeli just acknowledge that he was associated with a bad actor in Apple's system…

Listening to the recording, the whole thing was basically over. Apple just wanted him to explain what happened and then they'd reinstate him, i. e. "I registered an account for someone else and when that account was involved in faking reviews, it was still tied to my credit card & name."

They only wanted this because he chose to get everyone riled up about the perceived injustice, and it's causing Apple a PR headache. It could have been avoided if he had chosen to resolve this in private, or at least went with a bit more ambiguity instead of indignation.

...But I really don't get why this didn't end with the phone call. Write a post, be done with it. Instead, he's trying to escalate it further, breaking California law by publishing the phone call and making it basically impossible for Apple to accommodate him. Considering this is his livelihood, this post is a tragic mistake.

Funny thing is that everyone seems to have agreed on a story... "My cousin did it". It seems quite natural that when that account is used for spam, it comes back to him. considering his credit card was the only ID that had been verified.

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