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Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

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Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#381

Post by prodigal_erik »

bastijn wrote: post #234

TL;DR - open offices might increase the frequency you bump into people and thus interaction, but that was never a real issue in the first place. - open offices are less productive as a whole due to the increased noise levels and the increased number of coffee machine talks all over the working floor. - privacy is gone. On the plus side this is forcing people to work. On the downside this also reduces job satisfaction…

> On the plus side this is forcing people to work.

It's forcing people to type, but typing without concentrating has no value.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#382

Post by borplk »

jahaja wrote: post #181

I'm surprised that comments seem to focus so much on the impact on productivity but not the impact on workers' health.

Come to think about it, wow you are right.

As a huge introvert I noticed my mental health very visibly improved after I quit my regular office job to work from the comfort and peace of my home.

I think I had a bit of a case of Stockholm Syndrome at the time thinking that I'm going to get lonely or miss coming in to an office and seeing coworkers and so on. Not one bit. I feel like an adult and an independent human again after so long.

The routine and the lack of genuine choice had started to make me feel like a child.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#383

Post by mgberlin »

fivesigma wrote: post #167
caleblloyd wrote: post #27

I worked for a year at IBM's RTP campus. Everyone had their own dimly lit cube with 5-foot walls, no natural daylight, and white noise playing over speakers to drown out conversation. The depressing undertone of the office was part of what pushed me to quit. My team at my present job works in an open setting with 8 people in the room and windows with natural daylight. It's quiet enough to focus but gives us the oppor…

I wonder if you could cheat natural daylight by using big RGB LED area lights emitting at just the right amount of Kelvin. The aural equivalent ( https://rainymood.com/ ) certainly works for me.

To make it seem like sunlight you have to simulate Rayleigh scattering. I remember seeing a company that was making artificial skylights that did this, but can't seem to find it anymore.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#384

Post by borplk »

prodigal_erik wrote: post #381
bastijn wrote: post #234

TL;DR - open offices might increase the frequency you bump into people and thus interaction, but that was never a real issue in the first place. - open offices are less productive as a whole due to the increased noise levels and the increased number of coffee machine talks all over the working floor. - privacy is gone. On the plus side this is forcing people to work. On the downside this also reduces job satisfaction…

> On the plus side this is forcing people to work. It's forcing people to type, but typing without concentrating has no value.

As a developer I get some of my absolute best work done at a time that I look like I'm a moron and just wasting time.

I'm talking about things like lying down on the bed, staring at the ceiling and just churning through stuff in my head.

Or just sitting on the desk and staring at a corner of the screen like someone who has had a traumatic experience.

This means typical office environments knock me down a few steps in terms of quality. As in, If I'm working for myself on my own terms I feel like I can be an "A" developer.

However when I'm forced in those environments I'm capped at being a "C" developer.

That's one of the biggest reasons I love working for myself because no one else is questioning me about the effectiveness of my methods. Who cares if I get work done while staring at the ceiling or typing on the keyboard? All that matters is the output.

This means I can walk to the park sit on a bench for half an hour and come back having more problems solved than I would have in 1 week of noisy office time.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#385

Post by aetherson »

Swizec wrote: post #320
Declanomous wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggled with fatigue for most of my sophomore year of high school. I started falling asleep in class out of nowhere. Then, as suddenly as I started falling asleep in class, I stopped.Looking back, I realized that I had been going days and weeks without seeing the sun. None of my classes had windows, nor did the lunchroom or the gyms. I had been getting to school early for clubs and leaving late because of sports.…

> I was arriving at school before sunrise and leaving after sunset once the days got short enough. Is it possible that you were really really tired? That schedule sounds insane to me. Unless you're very high north, I guess.

The shortest day in San Francisco is 9.5 hours. The shortest day in Chicago is slightly north of 9 hours. The shortest day in London is less than 8 hours.

That's not an insane schedule. It's a bit longer than regular day, unless you're in London or north.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#386

Post by strictnein »

nocarrier wrote: post #361
webvictim wrote: post #304

I used to work at FB and the huge, open offices were one of my least favourite parts about the job. I worked in the London office for a year and that was actually a little better because it's smaller and generally quieter there, but the three years that I did in the Menlo Park offices were not particularly fun for all the reasons described. It's very difficult to concentrate when there's constant background noise. Me…

I joined FB in 2006 and had never been in an open office environment before. It was quite an adjustment. I didn't like working in the office until I had been there for about six months. The office on University Ave was packed tight and didn't have a lot of creature comforts--it was cheap desks arranged in groups of four, some conference rooms, a break room with snacks, and that's it. And I had come from a cubicle far…

> "I used to be so jealous of teams that had to grab war rooms and ensconce themselves in there with a bunch of laptops and displays"

In a previous job we used to find conference rooms that weren't bookable in the system and move into there until someone kicked us out. You can get a ton of work done in a small meeting room with 4-5 devs, when absolutely no one is bothering you.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#388

Post by justinlardinois »

jm_l wrote: post #321
webvictim wrote: post #304

I used to work at FB and the huge, open offices were one of my least favourite parts about the job. I worked in the London office for a year and that was actually a little better because it's smaller and generally quieter there, but the three years that I did in the Menlo Park offices were not particularly fun for all the reasons described. It's very difficult to concentrate when there's constant background noise. Me…

did you mean potted plants, rather than pot plants?

Not an unreasonable question.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2013-02-28/silicon-va...

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#389

Post by justinlardinois »

deanCommie wrote: post #343
caleblloyd wrote: post #27

I worked for a year at IBM's RTP campus. Everyone had their own dimly lit cube with 5-foot walls, no natural daylight, and white noise playing over speakers to drown out conversation. The depressing undertone of the office was part of what pushed me to quit. My team at my present job works in an open setting with 8 people in the room and windows with natural daylight. It's quiet enough to focus but gives us the oppor…

Thank you. I'm scared of the virulent backlash against open offices from devs right now. Is "productivity" really the only measure of job satisfaction? I'm more than happy to sacrifice some of my productivity for the sake of feeling more connected to my team, more light, and a general sense of freedom. If my employer agrees, and is willing to tolerate this productivity decrease (as apparently most employers are), the…

> Is "productivity" really the only measure of job satisfaction?

Productivity is a side effect of good employees working in a good environment. Programmers aren't satisfied because they're productive; they're productive because they're satisfied.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#390

Post by bastijn »

borplk wrote: post #384
prodigal_erik wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> On the plus side this is forcing people to work. It's forcing people to type, but typing without concentrating has no value.

As a developer I get some of my absolute best work done at a time that I look like I'm a moron and just wasting time. I'm talking about things like lying down on the bed, staring at the ceiling and just churning through stuff in my head. Or just sitting on the desk and staring at a corner of the screen like someone who has had a traumatic experience. This means typical office environments knock me down a few steps in…

I agree. Can't remember the source but the best advice I read once was actually to not have your hands on your keyboard when you first think about a problem. First action is sit and think about it. If that's in a park, on your bed, or staring like a zombie is AL up to you. As long as you don't do anything else.

This would require a (semi-)quiet space. After you can find the people you need to discuss the things you came up with

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