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Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

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Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#111

Post by galacticpony »

Mithaldu wrote: post #101
galacticpony wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank account used is credentials and Apple considers both accounts to belong to (quote) "the same legal entity" based on that fact. This is the way Apple conducts business.

It is indeed the way they do, but you are saying he should've known that, when he had in fact no way of knowing.

It is certainly knowable that the identity on the credit card is part of the verification process and that it must match his own. If the name he entered wasn't his own, the verification would likely have been denied: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6238222?tstart=0

That's why I'm suspicious as to which name he actually entered.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#112

Post by wutbrodo »

newsat13 wrote: post #102
Mithaldu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here's Kapeli's explanation of what happened: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story !!! it includes a recording of a phone call with Apple !!! Edit: After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him. I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. Here's the HN submission…

Apple is so childish. It's just a single developer against a whole company. Is it so hard for a company to just bury what happened and move on?

Has there ever been a period during which Apple didn't behave childishly? Its practically in their DNA. All the way from cheating a co-founder out of payment for a contract to "I will spend every last penny apple has in the bank and start a 'thermonuclear war' to destroy android" (condensed from a couple quotes for clarity).

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#113

Post by robocat »

mrkbxt wrote: post #78
Mithaldu wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And here's Kapeli's explanation of what happened: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story !!! it includes a recording of a phone call with Apple !!! Edit: After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him. I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. Here's the HN submission…

wiretapping apple? yeah, good move.

He is in Romania where it is legal to record phone calls - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_recording_laws#Roman...

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#114

Post by whywhywhywhy »

jwilcoxson wrote: post #18
Lazare wrote: post #4

This is a very weird definition of "proof". A much more accurate headline might be "Apple responds to Dash controversy by insisting they were right all along and refusing to provide proof." Edit: The tone of the entire article rubs me the wrong way; it reads like a press release that nobody could be bothered to re-write. > The integrity of the App Store is as important to Apple as it is to consumers. Citation needed?…

Unfortunately The Loop isn't much of a news site, more of a controlled Apple leak blog. Dalrymple has gotten to the point of being a complete Apple shill. Edit: Compare the tone of the Loop article to Daring Fireballs: http://daringfireball.net/2016/10/apple_dash_controversy Gruber takes a much more unbiased approach, supported well. The Loop article reads like a statement from the Principal read by your teacher.

You know it's bad when Gruber's blog is being held up as a less biased alternative. He's been so soft on them lately on anything except the Watch, even then he's been pretty soft.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#115

Post by Mithaldu »

galacticpony wrote: post #111
Mithaldu wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is indeed the way they do, but you are saying he should've known that, when he had in fact no way of knowing.

It is certainly knowable that the identity on the credit card is part of the verification process and that it must match his own. If the name he entered wasn't his own, the verification would likely have been denied: https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6238222?tstart=0 That's why I'm suspicious as to which name he actually entered.

Suspicion is fine with me. You could ask him via his twitter account. :)

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#116

Post by galacticpony »

Mithaldu wrote: post #110
yardie wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I bought a dev account to the App Store I had to pay with a credit card in my name. My employer was willing to pay for it and would have preferred to pay on the company credit card but the App Store explicitly didn't allow 3rd party payment. This was made abundantly clear when I signed up.

According to this, it's fine to use another person's CC as long as you provide govt id such that they can tie your account to a real person (and not the CC). https://developer.apple.com/support/purchase-activation/

That's your interpretation of an ambiguous sentence. If your interpretation was correct, shouldn't the person you replied to have been informed of that possibility?

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#117

Post by logicallee »

Mithaldu wrote: post #101
galacticpony wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bank account used is credentials and Apple considers both accounts to belong to (quote) "the same legal entity" based on that fact. This is the way Apple conducts business.

It is indeed the way they do, but you are saying he should've known that, when he had in fact no way of knowing.

I think I'm much less invested in this than you two but I can say that it would strike me as very unusual to pay for someone else's account with Apple.

For example, Mithaldu, if an anonymous outsourcing party rendered you a service, than rather than wire them money or pay via paypal, would you be okay with paying for an apple account with them, with no further relationship, and you don't even know who they are? Probably not.

I think we can all agree that yes, he "should have" thought about this implication of trust.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#118

Post by dpark »

cyberferret wrote: post #83

From 3:52 on the recording with the Apple rep - "Because we see them as the same entity. If we have accounts that are enrolled in our programme using the same credit card, they are the SAME legal entity. They ARE the same..." Yikes, because I often put contractor developer subscriptions and other incidental expenses on my company credit card to facilitate turnaround. Now it looks like I can get black banned if one of…

Yes. I'm not sure what the alternative would be. They let spammy app creators keep opening accounts indefinitely with no attempt to block them from repeat behavior?

I would refrain from using your credit card for others' accounts without serious consideration. I definitely wouldn't do this frivolously or for people you don't have a real trust relationship with.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#119

Post by galacticpony »

Mithaldu wrote: post #107
galacticpony wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It says if you do not pay by credit card , we want your photo ID, or at least it's ambiguous. Again, it's unclear under whose name the account really was registered, but if he went through the trouble of sending in photo ID, Kapeli would probably mention that as to further exonerate him of any mistakes.

They're be asking for photo id of the actual account holder, i.e. the relative, in lieu of id via CC account. And given that Apple was willing to reinstate his account, Kapeli is already exonerated.

Apple was willing to reinstate the account only under the condition that Kapeli admits there was a mistake on his part, so clearly that doesn't exonerate him from having signed up for an account for a third party under his identity. This is Apple's position and I would expect they have designed their terms so that this position holds up.

Re: Apple Responds to Dash Controversy

#120

Post by abalone »

Mithaldu wrote: post #62
jwilcoxson wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately The Loop isn't much of a news site, more of a controlled Apple leak blog. Dalrymple has gotten to the point of being a complete Apple shill. Edit: Compare the tone of the Loop article to Daring Fireballs: http://daringfireball.net/2016/10/apple_dash_controversy Gruber takes a much more unbiased approach, supported well. The Loop article reads like a statement from the Principal read by your teacher.

And here's Kapeli's explanation of what happened: https://blog.kapeli.com/dash-and-apple-my-side-of-the-story !!! it includes a recording of a phone call with Apple !!! Edit: After listening to the first 2 minutes of the call, i can say with absolute confidence that Apple is straight-up blackmailing him. I would love to hear opinions on whether this is something that could be taken to court. Here's the HN submission…

It sure sounds like Schiller's team screwed up here and should reinstate his account forthwith.

In short, Kapeli helped a relative open an account years ago but has otherwise been unassociated with that account. He technically shouldn't have used his credit card to help his relative, but this is Romania and it's just a nominal $99 fee, so he probably didn't think much of it. Apple's stance is they now look at them as "linked" accounts due to the use of his credit card and old devices, so they were justified in shutting down his account for fraudulent activity on the other one.

Problem is Apple never contacted Kapeli's account before shutting both of them down. They didn't do any extra due diligence for a top developer. Their notices only went to the other account, apparently, and Kapeli never had a chance to see them. He just woke up one day and his account was banned.

Now, that's just dumb. If the accounts are linked, why not notify both accounts?

Kapeli's an extremely well-respected app and has oodles of credibility. That alone should have triggered a deeper investigation before shutting him down. That fact that they know what happened here and still refuse to reinstate the account is shameful.

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