Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

calnewport.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

331–340 of 483 posts

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#331

Post by taurath »

elnado wrote: post #264
erobbins wrote: post #220

I worked at a company where there was a combination of team rooms and offices... but all the walls were glass. You had the benefit of being able to see if Julie was at her desk so you could go ask her a question, but not hear Bob next door arguing with his wife again. It was fantastic. Now, I'm at FB... and I wouldn't work on a team in the new "warehouse" building. It's terrible over there, frankly.

Haha I used to be at Microsoft in a building like you described: a combination of open space with offices and break-out areas. They're trying to renovate all their buildings to follow this hybrid approach as they did with building 16 which is just incredibly gorgeous ( https://news.microsoft.com/stories/b16/ ). Now I'm at a startup in the bay are that adopted the generic open-space/warehouse design and although I'm h…

Its very interesting that they only have one shot or two of the actual offices that people work, and the rest being the architecture.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#332

Post by coredog64 »

jpgvm wrote: post #317
elnado wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Haha I used to be at Microsoft in a building like you described: a combination of open space with offices and break-out areas. They're trying to renovate all their buildings to follow this hybrid approach as they did with building 16 which is just incredibly gorgeous ( https://news.microsoft.com/stories/b16/ ). Now I'm at a startup in the bay are that adopted the generic open-space/warehouse design and although I'm h…

I'm fairly certain Microsoft is like the gold standard when it comes to office spaces. I have always been super impressed when visiting any Microsoft campus.

As I understand it, they went so far as to build office buildings that could efficiently house as many private offices as possible. So rather than a volume efficient cube, they would build long, thin buildings with offices around the perimeter and shared services in the center.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#333

Post by [deleted] »

yason wrote: post #246
nilkn wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Natural light is one of the most important aspects of an office to me. A few years ago I actually turned down an offer because I realized I'd be sitting in an interior team-sized room with no windows and just a door to a hallway, again with no windows. I would have been giving up a seat next to huge windows with light flooding into the room. I just knew that I'd end up depressed in those working conditions and decide…

I have my office windows all blacked out with blinds and a heavy curtain. Natural light makes it difficult to look at the screen. I will enjoy my natural light when I don't need to use my brain for coding and work. The best environment is like an evening or night: darkness except some dim, indirect lights, just like evenings and nights with slight ambient lighting. Best offices accommodate different needs.

[deleted]

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#334

Post by Symbiote »

Swizec wrote: post #320
Declanomous wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggled with fatigue for most of my sophomore year of high school. I started falling asleep in class out of nowhere. Then, as suddenly as I started falling asleep in class, I stopped.Looking back, I realized that I had been going days and weeks without seeing the sun. None of my classes had windows, nor did the lunchroom or the gyms. I had been getting to school early for clubs and leaving late because of sports.…

> I was arriving at school before sunrise and leaving after sunset once the days got short enough. Is it possible that you were really really tired? That schedule sounds insane to me. Unless you're very high north, I guess.

It could make sense for Alaska.

It could also work for much of Europe, but we probably wouldn't use the word "sophomore", and I've never seen or heard of a school with no windows. I doubt it is allowed.

(For example, the UK requirements for a school building state "giving priority to daylight in all teaching spaces, circulation, staff offices and social areas" and "providing adequate views to the outside or into the distance to ensure visual comfort and help avoid eye strain" [1])

[1] https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/standards-for-sch...

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#335

Post by sizzzzlerz »

BinaryIdiot wrote: post #236
vonmoltke wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had several years of that when I worked in a DOD closed area. Never going back to that again.

Working in a SCIF is the WORST. Never again. Though I was able to work in one, very briefly, that had windows. It was bizarre to me being in a SCIF but with windows that had blinds open...

Working in a SCIF isn't so bad when you've got an outside office. I typically spend half my day in each location. I have had days, however, where I go into the SCIF in the morning and don't emerge until its time to go home. Fortunately, that's pretty rare.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#336

Post by [deleted] »

Swizec wrote: post #320
Declanomous wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I struggled with fatigue for most of my sophomore year of high school. I started falling asleep in class out of nowhere. Then, as suddenly as I started falling asleep in class, I stopped.Looking back, I realized that I had been going days and weeks without seeing the sun. None of my classes had windows, nor did the lunchroom or the gyms. I had been getting to school early for clubs and leaving late because of sports.…

> I was arriving at school before sunrise and leaving after sunset once the days got short enough. Is it possible that you were really really tired? That schedule sounds insane to me. Unless you're very high north, I guess.

[deleted]

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#337

Post by erobbins »

webvictim wrote: post #304

I used to work at FB and the huge, open offices were one of my least favourite parts about the job. I worked in the London office for a year and that was actually a little better because it's smaller and generally quieter there, but the three years that I did in the Menlo Park offices were not particularly fun for all the reasons described. It's very difficult to concentrate when there's constant background noise. Me…

> The worst thing of all (in my opinion) is the fact that the open office culture is simply accepted there as being the best thing for all concerned. It's like a theory that cannot be challenged. The introverts basically don't get listened to, while the extroverts can sing and dance with happiness.

Agreed.. this is the most troubling part. If you raise a concern you're brushed off or even worse looked on with suspicion.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#338

Post by Symbiote »

namiller2 wrote: post #97
taurath wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had this and private offices... what happens is that difficult conversations can't take place except outside of the office (unless there is another space to go). Need to have a 1-1? Everyone else hears it. No meta conversations can take place unless someone is willing to go out for some coffee. The team banter ends up being trivial, and can be incredibly distracting if you need to buckle down to get something do…

Your office doesn't have a single shared meeting room? Most places I've seen with open offices have some sort of meeting rooms to use for private conversations. How do you have a client call or anything of that matter?

Mine does, but you need to go through two doors to get to it.

That's a barrier compared to just chatting at someone's desk. Or the developer doesn't want to move their laptop, so they'd rather stay at their desk that go to the meeting room.

That leads to too many conversations in the open plan office.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#339

Post by irrational »

ryandrake wrote: post #259
irrational wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, I'd never be able to find the people who implemented the open floor plan. That's one of the problems with huge companies - the guilty are to often anonymous ;-) The problem with the sales person is that there are room set aside for making phone calls (whether personal or business) and there are always some available, but apparently that is entirely too unreasonable to expect someone with a laptop to go find a r…

Have you asked her?

Yes. She doesn't care.
Post reply on HN