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Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

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Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#191

Post by johnward »

irrational wrote: post #37

When my company moved to an open office plan we, the developers, tried to argue that we needed the ability to concentrate and that this would hinder that. We were told that every job required concentration and that we shouldn't be such prima donnas who think we are special snowflakes. Someday I'm going to get a special snowglobe and shove it down the throat of the sales lady who sits next to me who holds conference c…

I've had the opposite experience. As a software consultant I'm often on client calls. Our developers decided that a gong was the way to signal stand up time. They eventually moved to bongo drums. I don't know what they do now. I work from home.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#192

Post by Retric »

jowiar wrote: post #36
fatlasp wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always thought open offices became popular because it was literally the cheapest set up for facilities. For startups it worked because all you had to buy was desks. Somehow that got spun in to 'open offices are so sexy!' Open offices are horrible for productivity imo. Moved to a job with an office and it is so. much. better.

The efficiency gain with open offices is that, for high-growth companies -- or ones that are uncertain about their long-term size, it's pretty easy to shuffle furniture around to squeeze in more people. When walls and doors get involved, you're committing to "each person gets X sq. ft", for a company that may grow from x to 2x employees. That said, they're a disaster for productivity.

Often teams that go from X to 2X end up getting less stuff done. There is an argument that startups should grow as fast as possible to pre-pay that debt, but getting less stuff done while burning 2+x the money is only seen as a good idea in SV.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#193

Post by [deleted] »

TylerH wrote: post #162
cousin_it wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That depends on the person. I like when other people come to my desk and ask me for help on a whim, even when I'm in the middle of something. It doesn't destroy my productivity, and often it even gives me ideas how to make my work more useful. I do respect when other people don't want to be interrupted, though.

If you stop what you are doing then, by definition, it is breaking your workflow and stopping your productivity.

[deleted]

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#194

Post by vonmoltke »

lazzlazzlazz wrote: post #154

I work in an open office, and have been to Facebook's open office campus many times. I love working in an open office, and think Facebook's campus looks excellent. I think the disadvantages of open offices are radically exaggerated by people who have difficulty imagining how easy it is to book a small conference room for yourself for a few hours, to walk away to a hotel desk in a more quiet part of the office, or (mo…

> I think the disadvantages of open offices are radically exaggerated by people who have difficulty imagining how easy it is to book a small conference room for yourself for a few hours, to walk away to a hotel desk in a more quiet part of the office, or (more typically) for the white noise of the central air to obscure everyone's mild sounds as they quietly work.

There are those of us who can only do our jobs from our desks for various reasons and who have direct experience with crappy, noise-polluted environments. The disadvantages are not radically exaggerated unless you always use best-case open office implementations as your baseline.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#195

Post by kangax »

evanelias wrote: post #171

For me, density and team layout makes a big impact between a good open plan space and a horrible one. I worked for FB in NYC, and found that when visiting Menlo Park hq, the open plan there didn't bother me at all -- if anything, I was actually way more productive there. The density at MPK was low enough that the noise/distraction level was minimal, and all of the surrounding teams were working on similar parts of th…

I'm at FB office in NYC and I agree with your points. MPK always has that more chill vibe and is less dense/quieter. The NY office has gotten much better though. Many engineers are now on 15th floor which has no distractions like help desk and is generally surprisingly quiet. I notice myself working in almost complete silence among many people around and only once in a while put my headphones on. Sucks to hear about your experience.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#196

Post by hatsix »

fsloth wrote: post #9

Is there anyone here who likes open offices more than a floorplan divised into smaller rooms? I ask because I've worked in an open office setting as a developer for years (the place is otherwise nice) and thoroughly despise it as a workspace. Yet some people don't seem to mind it. I don't mind serendipity. The problem is I serendiptously overhear everyones discussion which is incredibly disruptive for deep work. Fact…

I prefer open. I've never seen cube farms or offices that have a decent amount of natural light.

Also, I seem to be the minority in comments, but I don't mind people talking around me. I don't use my ears/hearing to code, so it doesn't distract me nearly as much as chat windows or anything visual on my laptop. I suppose the real issue is people having interesting conversations around me... But I have headphones and music if I need to concentrate (I probably only wear them for 1-2 hours a week to block out conversations).

Every week one a new article like this is posted, and every week the comments are overwhelmingly "open offices are bad". Every week I meet more people like me who don't comment because they don't feel strongly about protecting open offices, and would like the people who are upset by open offices to find their comfortable place.

There really are quite a few of us who don't mind open offices... I'd guess it's probably a majority of people... We don't really want to impose on others...

My only real concern is that the people who want their own offices tend to also have seniority and want natural light... I've seen these people carve out their own personal paradise, while blocking other's ability to have a good working environment.

Context: Mid-thirties, Sr Engineer in Seattle who has worked for small startups (My solution: Ability to concentrate is a teachable skill. Every skill-based sport has to teach players how to focus on the goal and ignore the distraction (hence my assertion that Golf isn't skill-based). We use enough sportsball analogies in coding, so I'll add another.... Coding in an office is like batting against a pitching machine.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#198

Post by reitanqild »

vonmoltke wrote: post #174
geofft wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems like a way to exacerbate Conway's law problems https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law . Most of the technical debt I try to fight off is based on my team doing something that makes sense for us based on what we're good at / what we think other teams want, but doesn't line up with what other teams want / what they think we can deliver; we end up essentially building abstraction layers around other tea…

It sounds like you are trying to compensate for a lack of systems engineering by changing the office layout. You shouldn't be relying on serendipitously overheard conversations for coordinating things like this.

I upvoted both you and parent:

On one hand I totally agree with you. On the other hand Conways law exist for a reason.

I see no reason why this shouldn't be another case of "[...] these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#199

Post by Crespyl »

jarsin wrote: post #155
zerognowl wrote: post #12

This Is Why You Shouldn't Interrupt a Programmer: http://heeris.id.au/2013/this-is-why-you-shouldnt-interrupt-...

Most dev's don't go back to step 1 when interrupted. They go to checking out hacker news :)

Guilty as charged.

For those like me who're susceptible to software fences around unproductive behavior, HN has a useful "antiprocrastination" option available under your profile settings.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#200

Post by cjmoran »

caleblloyd wrote: post #27

I worked for a year at IBM's RTP campus. Everyone had their own dimly lit cube with 5-foot walls, no natural daylight, and white noise playing over speakers to drown out conversation. The depressing undertone of the office was part of what pushed me to quit. My team at my present job works in an open setting with 8 people in the room and windows with natural daylight. It's quiet enough to focus but gives us the oppor…

Hah, that old server room on the second floor of 500? That place was incredibly depressing. I worked from home nearly every day (breaking the "two days per week maximum" policy) because I couldn't stand it in there and my team wasn't located in RTP anyway.
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