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Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

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Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#151

Post by fsloth »

busted wrote: post #66
fsloth wrote: post #9

Is there anyone here who likes open offices more than a floorplan divised into smaller rooms? I ask because I've worked in an open office setting as a developer for years (the place is otherwise nice) and thoroughly despise it as a workspace. Yet some people don't seem to mind it. I don't mind serendipity. The problem is I serendiptously overhear everyones discussion which is incredibly disruptive for deep work. Fact…

I've worked in a 2-person office, in a cubicle, and in open office plans of various sizes. I personally prefer the open office format. It makes the team feel more cohesive, it makes me able to jump in to problems that are happening, and it's never stopped me from doing work that requires deep concentration. And if I really wanted to, I could book a small conference room or go to a corner booth somewhere away from my…

You don't need an open office for the team to work in the same space. A team room is not a gigantic open office. It's a big room with walls. I loved working in a teamroom. I get instant awareness what everyone else is doing in my team - the actual claimed benefit of an open office - with no downsides. An open office has several teams and one is forced to be aware of their doings as well.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#152

Post by scient »

guelo wrote: post #73

Developers also hate Facebook's mission and the overpriced shithole location.

Yet they have a lot of bright people working there and every year a ton of new-grads fight for the chance for an internship there. Plus the company is doing really well and treating their employees really well. A top 5 best places to work at according to Glassdoor. It really must be so miserable there...

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#153

Post by dasmoth »

caleblloyd wrote: post #27

I worked for a year at IBM's RTP campus. Everyone had their own dimly lit cube with 5-foot walls, no natural daylight, and white noise playing over speakers to drown out conversation. The depressing undertone of the office was part of what pushed me to quit. My team at my present job works in an open setting with 8 people in the room and windows with natural daylight. It's quiet enough to focus but gives us the oppor…

If I have to share, I'd rather it was with randoms from other parts of the organisation than with close colleagues. Less of a feeling that every conversation going on in the room is potentially important.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#154

Post by lazzlazzlazz »

I work in an open office, and have been to Facebook's open office campus many times. I love working in an open office, and think Facebook's campus looks excellent.

I think the disadvantages of open offices are radically exaggerated by people who have difficulty imagining how easy it is to book a small conference room for yourself for a few hours, to walk away to a hotel desk in a more quiet part of the office, or (more typically) for the white noise of the central air to obscure everyone's mild sounds as they quietly work.

I chronically had focus issues growing up and was easily distracted, and I have no problem focusing at work in an open office - even when it's crowded with people.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#156

Post by dwc »

irrational wrote: post #37

When my company moved to an open office plan we, the developers, tried to argue that we needed the ability to concentrate and that this would hinder that. We were told that every job required concentration and that we shouldn't be such prima donnas who think we are special snowflakes. Someday I'm going to get a special snowglobe and shove it down the throat of the sales lady who sits next to me who holds conference c…

> the sales lady who sits next to me who holds conference calls all day long from her desk

I've had this situation in the past a few times and to some degree today. If we have to have open office plans then at least take some effort into grouping "talkers" together away from "heads down" people.

Is that so hard? There's no real economic argument, as it's just putting some thought into where people sit. There's no collaboration argument, because people on the same team would site together. Etc. From the reactions when I've brought it up, that's a completely unreasonable request. The whole idea than anyone's productivity might benefit from a quiet work environment seems to make management/HR upset.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#157

Post by ssharp »

nashashmi wrote: post #14
DougN7 wrote: post #4

Open offices were developed by people who don't have to really concentrate for their job. They're awful for developers.

People go to cafes to work. It is not closed cubicles there. And I think they are able to concentrate more. I know for one that I can.

I actually find most open office environments to be better than cafes. Cafes tend to be very loud, have lots of movement, and I get distracted by people slurping their coffee, munching on food, etc. I've also noticed people at cafes who talk on the phone talk much louder than I've experienced people talking on the phone in open offices.

I much prefer the library setting where you're expected to be quiet and there is little movement around you.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#158

Post by TylerH »

V-2 wrote: post #24
harryjo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html #8 joel used to (still does?) host a job board that used Joel Test as a factor. Maybe it died when StackOverflow launched.

Even so, the Joel Test was incorporated in Stack Careers if I recall

Yes, Stack Overflow Jobs does have the opportunity for employers to include their Joel Test score (including line items, not just the overall number) at the bottom of their postings.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#159

Post by TheOneTrueKyle »

boardwaalk wrote: post #92
United857 wrote: post #59

(Disclosure: FB employee) Most of the problems about overhearing conversations, etc, can be dealt with by a nice pair of headphones. Here, it's universally accepted as the 'do not disturb' signal.

If the employer provides super comfortable noise-cancelling headphones I would agree. Personally, listening to music all day gives me a headache and podcasts are too distracting. And I don't need these headphones for anything else (otherwise, I'd already have a pair!) I wonder what would come of it if I requested some.

I am wondering if this is the divide. I personally do not mind open spaces because I have headphones. I find that I can work anywhere so long as I have wifi, my laptop and a pair of headphones. But I have also been wearing headphones most of my life to drown out the noises of my environment (and sadly the sounds of domestic abuse growing up).

So I'm curious if people who hate open spaces had greater control of their environment growing up. I didn't and adapted. Maybe I'm reaching here, but curious of other's opinion on this take.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#160

Post by johannes1234321 »

combatentropy wrote: post #146
namiller2 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your office doesn't have a single shared meeting room? Most places I've seen with open offices have some sort of meeting rooms to use for private conversations. How do you have a client call or anything of that matter?

If everyone has their own office, then someone coming into your office is an everyday affair. They could be talking about a programming problem, lunch, or something personal. You don't know, but you would go crazy wondering about it, because it happens all day. In an open room where half a dozen or so people sit, if two people stand up, walk into a conference room, and shut the door, that's weird and curious.

> In an open room where half a dozen or so people sit, if two people stand up, walk into a conference room, and shut the door, that's weird and curious.

This also happens all the time, thus not weird. (or people don't talk ...)

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