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Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

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Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#21

Post by nerdponx »

fecak wrote: post #10

As the moderator of a Reddit sub focused on comp sci careers, I don't think the open office is an issue for junior level developers. The worship of what we in that sub call the big 4 (some combo of Google, Facebook, Apple (or Microsoft), Amazon) is pretty much what you hear from every college senior, and I've never heard anyone even mention this as a negative. Of course these are mostly people who haven't had much ex…

> Of course these are mostly people who haven't had much experience working in office environments except possibly an internship or part-time work.

Exactly. I didn't think an open floor plan was such a bad idea until I started working full-time in one. I can't stand it.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#22

Post by harryjo »

fsloth wrote: post #9

Is there anyone here who likes open offices more than a floorplan divised into smaller rooms? I ask because I've worked in an open office setting as a developer for years (the place is otherwise nice) and thoroughly despise it as a workspace. Yet some people don't seem to mind it. I don't mind serendipity. The problem is I serendiptously overhear everyones discussion which is incredibly disruptive for deep work. Fact…

Some people are less sensitive and are able to tune the noise out. Some are not.

Sometimes success depends on willingness to use ear coverings and stimulants (caffeine, ritalin, adderall), and willingness varies.

I'd rather pay for a wall than overload my body with drugs and a clamp on my head.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#23

Post by mattmanser »

fecak wrote: post #10

As the moderator of a Reddit sub focused on comp sci careers, I don't think the open office is an issue for junior level developers. The worship of what we in that sub call the big 4 (some combo of Google, Facebook, Apple (or Microsoft), Amazon) is pretty much what you hear from every college senior, and I've never heard anyone even mention this as a negative. Of course these are mostly people who haven't had much ex…

I don't get your point?

Like you say, a bunch of people who have never worked in an open plan office obviously won't complain about it, nor will they realize it's something they should filter by.

They haven't experienced the problem yet.

Take renting a flat. I now know to avoid everywhere with storage heaters, just like I avoid places with single glazing and I also now know I should check the shower water pressure.

I didn't magically know these things before.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#24

Post by V-2 »

harryjo wrote: post #18
byebyetech wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need a job site that lists companies that provide your own office. I would only apply there.

http://www.joelonsoftware.com/articles/fog0000000043.html #8 joel used to (still does?) host a job board that used Joel Test as a factor. Maybe it died when StackOverflow launched.

Even so, the Joel Test was incorporated in Stack Careers if I recall

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#25

Post by quickben »

bicx wrote: post #3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this blog post doesn't actually seem to answer the question. I'm curious if Facebook really is having difficulty recruiting developers due to this specific issue and if the 40-50% pay offering really has anything to do with that.

It's subjective. As an sample size of one, based on what I've heard, I'd never work for fb

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#26

Post by harryjo »

mmuro wrote: post #6
bicx wrote: post #3

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this blog post doesn't actually seem to answer the question. I'm curious if Facebook really is having difficulty recruiting developers due to this specific issue and if the 40-50% pay offering really has anything to do with that.

Betteridge's law of headlines: "Any headline that ends in a question mark can be answered by the word no."

It's not true in this case, though. People who have the power to choose, are voting with their feet.

Still, many people have short term thinking or knowledge (better to get higher pay now than realize it will hold back by career trajectory), or they aren't too worried about success of their company or their productivity level.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#27

Post by caleblloyd »

I worked for a year at IBM's RTP campus. Everyone had their own dimly lit cube with 5-foot walls, no natural daylight, and white noise playing over speakers to drown out conversation. The depressing undertone of the office was part of what pushed me to quit.

My team at my present job works in an open setting with 8 people in the room and windows with natural daylight. It's quiet enough to focus but gives us the opportunity for interaction also. I think that team-sized rooms are a good compromise between a completely open and completely secluded workspace.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#28

Post by throwaway2016a »

fatlasp wrote: post #7
DougN7 wrote: post #4

Open offices were developed by people who don't have to really concentrate for their job. They're awful for developers.

I always thought open offices became popular because it was literally the cheapest set up for facilities. For startups it worked because all you had to buy was desks. Somehow that got spun in to 'open offices are so sexy!' Open offices are horrible for productivity imo. Moved to a job with an office and it is so. much. better.

That's why we have them... we literally can't afford to give everyone (or anyone for that matter) a private office.

Re: Is Facebook’s Massive Open Office Scaring Away Developers?

#30

Post by thurn »

fsloth wrote: post #9

Is there anyone here who likes open offices more than a floorplan divised into smaller rooms? I ask because I've worked in an open office setting as a developer for years (the place is otherwise nice) and thoroughly despise it as a workspace. Yet some people don't seem to mind it. I don't mind serendipity. The problem is I serendiptously overhear everyones discussion which is incredibly disruptive for deep work. Fact…

I prefer open offices. You get a pretty significant echo chamber effect on articles like this because people who don't like it turn out to comment.

Personally, I have no difficulty with noise (I prefer working in coffee shops to at home), and being able to easily start a design discussion with 4 or 5 engineers when necessary is extremely valuable. I totally get why some people don't like it though.

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