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The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

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Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#91

Post by piotrkaminski »

UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #69
Houshalter wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because by the time this plan actually works, humans won't even be driving cars anymore. And as I said I would be very surprised if it actually did work, given how quickly people lose the habits they are taught in driver's ed (how many people keep 4 seconds of distance, wear their seatbelt, never speed, adjust their mirrors correctly, look both ways for trains, etc.)

> Because by the time this plan actually works, humans won't even be driving cars anymore. They'll still be opening doors and riding bikes however. > how many people keep 4 seconds of distance, wear their seatbelt, never speed, adjust their mirrors correctly, look both ways for trains, etc. Most people? Well except for the speed one. But the vast majority of people wear their seatbelts, give a safe travelling distanc…

> They'll still be opening doors and riding bikes however.

Will they? I'd expect an autonomous car's doors to be under its control unless the passenger declares an emergency (which would be a Big Deal, call the police, etc.). Also, once autonomous cars are plentiful and transportation is dirt cheap, how many people will still be riding bikes in congested areas?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#92

Post by jacquesm »

mabcat wrote: post #89
jacquesm wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Be brave and take the lane. If you delay other road users, let them honk and shout - that metre of space is literally a matter of life and death. In a country that already respects cyclists this may work. In a country that does not it will likely get you to wake up in the infirmary (assuming you wake up at all) after being hit by someone in a hurry that assumed you were going to give their 2 ton vehicle the room it…

In my experience taking the lane stops people from assuming that they have space to pass except by changing lanes. Car drivers mostly take their cues from the cyclist. If you're cycling in the gutter it signals for car drivers to try to overtake you in the same lane. Why would you be in the gutter, except to yield the rest of your lane to cars? There's not space for a car and a bicycle in the same lane. A car will al…

Sure, that's the theory. But in practice some drivers will see it as an aggressive move to take 'their' lane. They are wrong, no doubt, but it doesn't pay off to go head-to-head with a bunch of bricks when you're an egg. Better to play it safe. Keep in mind that you're entirely unprotected.

The best way to stay safe in traffic with vehicles is to assume that (1) you're invisible (2) made of eggshells and (3) everybody behind you is out to get you.

If you're a young burly male you might get away with this but keep in mind that advocating this strategy for all cyclists (little old ladies, kids, etc) would definitely not work.

In a car centric society the last thing you want to do is to occupy a full lane sized for vehicles but going 1/3rd their speed. It is an open invitation for aggression against your person, plenty of people see you riding a bike already as such an invitation it certainly isn't going to get better by occupying 'their' lane.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#94

Post by Tiktaalik »

amorphid wrote: post #86
Tiktaalik wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to get rid of street parking entirely. Another option is to put a separated bike lane between the parked cars and the sidewalk. This way cyclists are protected from traffic and parked cars (ensure a bit of room for the passenger door). Also the increased cognitive load of having to pay attention to many things occurring on the road is not necessarily a bad thing. There is evidence that having to pay at…

On my commute to work, the "bike lane" is shared between bicycles, cars, parked cars (between the bikers and sidewalk), and busses. Basically, they painted bike logos on the asphalt in an already jam packed lane and told everyone to share!

Sounds like a typical "Sharrow" bike lane, which is supposed to be a portmanteau of "share" and "arrow" but is often described as a "shitty arrow" because of how dangerous and ineffective these bike lanes are.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#95

Post by [deleted] »

cortesoft wrote: post #46
saulrh wrote: post #5

Getting it added to the driver's license test is probably the key here.

Using your blinker is a requirement in the driver's license test, too. So is driving with your hands 10-2, coming to a complete stop at all stop signs, and driving the speed limit. I don't think adding something to a driver's test is going to change much.

[deleted]

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#96

Post by tempestn »

ScottBurson wrote: post #36

I guess this is not a bad idea, but just looking in the side mirror before opening the door is easier to do, and probably easier to teach people to do. As a cyclist, I give parked cars as much room as possible. I've never been doored... though I've never ridden in NYC either.

This is what I always do, and it seems to work fine. I can't recall whether I was ever explicitly taught this or not, but I find it amazing that some people apparently just fling their door blindly open into.. whatever might be there, without checking somehow.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#97

Post by mabcat »

FullMtlAlcoholc wrote: post #15

Or, as a bike rider one can simply look into a cars cabin and see if a person is inside. I assume everyone is a terrible driver, have no idea I'm on the road. I am a regular bike commuter on traffic heavy Los Angeles. I'll never understand the mentality of bicyclists who are more concerned with asserting their rights as opposed to exercising caution and restraint. Graveyards are full of people who had the right of wa…

This got discussed in motorbike school. Even if you rode slowly enough to peer into every car you passed, children in the back seat are too short to see. Just don't ride anything in the door zone under any circumstances, it's crazy.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#98

Post by ams6110 »

Zanni wrote: post #51

The real answer is to get rid of street parking when you have a bike lane. They're incompatible. In fact, just get rid of street parking altogether. As a bicyclist, I've been doored. As a pedestrian, I find it difficult to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to cross the street in some locations. As a driver, I find it difficult to to see around parked cars to know if it's safe to enter the street AND I have…

Why not get rid of bike lanes where you have street parking?

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#99

Post by nixos »

piotrkaminski wrote: post #91
UnoriginalGuy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because by the time this plan actually works, humans won't even be driving cars anymore. They'll still be opening doors and riding bikes however. > how many people keep 4 seconds of distance, wear their seatbelt, never speed, adjust their mirrors correctly, look both ways for trains, etc. Most people? Well except for the speed one. But the vast majority of people wear their seatbelts, give a safe travelling distanc…

> They'll still be opening doors and riding bikes however. Will they? I'd expect an autonomous car's doors to be under its control unless the passenger declares an emergency (which would be a Big Deal, call the police, etc.). Also, once autonomous cars are plentiful and transportation is dirt cheap, how many people will still be riding bikes in congested areas?

>Also, once autonomous cars are plentiful and transportation is dirt cheap

Why do you think it's going to be dirt cheap? I expect it's going to be half of an Uber ride, but not much less.

Re: The Dutch Reach: Clever Workaround to Keep Cyclists from Getting “Doored”

#100

Post by ereyes01 »

Here in Austin, some streets have done away with parallel parking in favor of back-in angle parking. This approach has some benefits, one of which is eliminating the possibility of dooring bicyclists.

Music in the video is lame, but this video illustrates the concept: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HddkCbsWHlk

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