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San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

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Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#71
post #41

Honest question: Do any class or all classes of people (citizens, legal immigrants, illegal immigrants, refugees, criminals, teachers, disabled, adults, children, or any other type of people) have a right to a home or some other minimum level of shelter? Seems like discussion on homelessness would be slightly easier if we started from first principles or at least some place where there is closer to a consensus.

It's important to recognize that the problem isn't that shelter is expensive, but that land is expensive. And to reframe the question, do all people have a right not to be excluded from land (without a commensurate payment)? I believe the answer is a resounding yes. Note: I'm a Georgist. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

How about the people who decided that they didn't like their land in Nigeria, but decided to move to Dublin, Ireland because they like it there better.

What then?

Government creates property rights, which is what Land really is about, and there appears to be a limited supply to go around. Thereby only citizens of a country who pay taxes should have the right to own Land. Does this make sense?

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's important to recognize that the problem isn't that shelter is expensive, but that land is expensive. And to reframe the question, do all people have a right not to be excluded from land (without a commensurate payment)? I believe the answer is a resounding yes. Note: I'm a Georgist. [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgism

How about the people who decided that they didn't like their land in Nigeria, but decided to move to Dublin, Ireland because they like it there better. What then? Government creates property rights, which is what Land really is about, and there appears to be a limited supply to go around. Thereby only citizens of a country who pay taxes should have the right to own Land. Does this make sense?

What happens when people in Virginia decide they want to move to California?

Georgists (including myself) tend to see anything less than open borders as deeply immoral.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#73

Am I alone in finding this "tiny home" trend insane? There's nothing wrong with downsizing, but just call it what it is: a mobile home or a trailer. Companies have been engineering mobile homes for decades to be highly efficient, long lasting, and fuel efficient for towing. Slapping a bunch of heavy wooden shingles on one and calling it a "tiny home" is just feel-good hipster nonsense.

Tiny Houser here. Could be insane. Mz called me eccentric recently. Sounds like a prelude to the full thing!

> There's nothing wrong with downsizing, but just call it what it is: a mobile home or a trailer.

You can call it whatever you like. There is a certain amount of class warfare between Tiny Housers and people living in RV parks which I won't try to justify.

> Companies have been engineering mobile homes for decades to be highly efficient, long lasting, and fuel efficient for towing.

This is not true at all.

1. It is not legal to live in trailers.

2. Most mobile phones are not capable of being 4 season dwellings because they don't meet air tightness and insulation levels of traditional houses.

3. Mobile homes were originally not supposed to be for permanent trailer parks. RV living is a hack like THs are. I think it started after the Great Depression, which would be analogous to the Great Stagnation we're in that produced the popularity of Tiny Houses.

4. The most important thing is the use case for a TH is totally different to an RV or mobile home. A TH is supposed to be lived in full time and quite rarely traveled around with. 90% of tiny housers would only move their house once a year and many of them never will. The people who have them light enough for frequent travel are the exceptions.

5. A properly constructed Tiny House will last > 60 years like a traditional house. RVs don't have that longevity.

> Slapping a bunch of heavy wooden shingles on one and calling it a "tiny home" is just feel-good hipster nonsense.

Traditional housing has identical materials and procedures to Tiny Houses. I suppose a house is just a bunch of material slapped together as well.

I think if you stepped inside a well built and designed Tiny House, your skepticism would fade away. They really are different to mobile homes. The sills are thicker, the furnishings are more homely, the walls aren't plastic. There are some really nice mobile homes out there but they just don't have the same use case.

One negative thing I shall say about Tiny Housers is that some of them think they 'chose' this lifestyle being they're superior beings. A minimalist lifestyle is fine but it is primarily about economics.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the people who decided that they didn't like their land in Nigeria, but decided to move to Dublin, Ireland because they like it there better. What then? Government creates property rights, which is what Land really is about, and there appears to be a limited supply to go around. Thereby only citizens of a country who pay taxes should have the right to own Land. Does this make sense?

What happens when people in Virginia decide they want to move to California? Georgists (including myself) tend to see anything less than open borders as deeply immoral.

If that literally happened there would be ructions. And those two groups are not that dissimilar.

> Georgists (including myself) tend to see anything less than open borders as deeply immoral.

Large numbers of Nigerians moved to Dublin. Robbery, fraud, violence shot up immediately and the CSO (gov stats) shows they are mostly not working and are recipients of state aid.

I used to believe in open borders once until I started living in some estates with migrants and started seeing the horrendous shit they were up to. Stealing cars, beating people up, probably murdering people judging by some of the awful sounds and continual police visits. I still do, but only for people like me. It might not be based on ethic identity necessarily but it should be based on something. Geekdom perhaps.

Otherwise, unwelcome though it is, violence is an inevitability.

Those borders were there for a reason. If you remove the borders then you need to remove the reason also. Until then we shall resolve conflict with violence. Calling that immoral solves nothing.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happens when people in Virginia decide they want to move to California? Georgists (including myself) tend to see anything less than open borders as deeply immoral.

If that literally happened there would be ructions. And those two groups are not that dissimilar. > Georgists (including myself) tend to see anything less than open borders as deeply immoral. Large numbers of Nigerians moved to Dublin. Robbery, fraud, violence shot up immediately and the CSO (gov stats) shows they are mostly not working and are recipients of state aid. I used to believe in open borders once until I s…

You are doing nothing to argue that closed borders are moral, just that implementing open borders has caused problems in some cases.

Similar arguments were made against dismantling the institution of slavery, and they were just as incoherent at addressing the root moral evil.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#76
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that America makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a country run by rich people, with a whole lot of workers. For the rich, this place is amazing. The rich have all the political power, so this makes sense. You'd think the working class has political power but their opinions are controlled by the wealthy. So for the people running America, there's nothing to fix. The system is designed to produce…

You missed one thing about the poor: they are useful as slaves--which is still legal in America. So America spends billions, maybe trillions over the last four to five decades to incarcerate people for anything, especially normal everyday human endeavors so they can be enslaved, provide free labor, and provide a base for others to profit off their pain. Most of these people are, of course, people of color, whom Ameri…

So then the slaves can cut corners (all in the name of profits, of course) and make unsafe helmets for our soldiers to defend all of this which we stand for: http://www.military.com/daily-news/2016/08/18/pentagon-priso...

It's profiteering all the way down.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the people who decided that they didn't like their land in Nigeria, but decided to move to Dublin, Ireland because they like it there better. What then? Government creates property rights, which is what Land really is about, and there appears to be a limited supply to go around. Thereby only citizens of a country who pay taxes should have the right to own Land. Does this make sense?

What happens when people in Virginia decide they want to move to California? Georgists (including myself) tend to see anything less than open borders as deeply immoral.

I want to ask you something else.

Your name sounds Irish actually. Have you ever lived in an areas with a large foreign population? Do you have any experience of those cultures apart from the television and holidaying.

You have to understand this is nothing to do with individuals. This is about groups and they don't behave like individuals somehow.

I've worked with a chap from the Congo, model citizen. Also a South African with a temper who couldn't work to save his life. I've worked with a guy from Pakistan and it was a car wreck because his views on women could only be described as vile, I literally saw him watching a woman being stoned to death for adultery and he thought it was hilarious. You don't want to live next door to somebody like that with your family.

There are good people everywhere. This is defined by me as whether those people are like us. It is just that you have to discriminate when people are doing evil things, sometimes in prodigious quantity. There's no two ways about it. Values really are that different in different places. There are parts of our world in which the rape of children and slavery are not illegal because they are so common and even when they are made illegal the practices continue. There are tribes that literally practice human sacrifice and cannibalism, still, in this world. These are their cultural values!

That means borders, and if you don't allow borders on the outside of a country then they develop themselves on the inside of a country. Look at the USA, they have gated communities because there exist predominately minority group areas with high crime rates.

A border is basically a filter for people. If you are saying this is immoral you need to explain why castle walls and border patrols are a recurrent feature of humankind since forever. The borders are literally in the landscape around us in Europe. This is something that goes way deep and it won't be shifted by waving your hands philosophically.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#78
post #45

There are a lot of building codes that are incredibly stupid. For things like this (homebuilding) where the competition is heavy and consumers have a choice (within a spending limit), I feel only the most bare of safety requirements should be law. All other standards related to efficiency, "above-and-beyond" safety and design considerations should be met and advertised via certifications. Almost every zoning law prob…

> But if we legislated like that for every accident, we'd be suffocated by regulations. We are already suffocated by regulations.

> Because we legislated like that for every accident, we're suffocated by regulations.

FTFY

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#79
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that America makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a country run by rich people, with a whole lot of workers. For the rich, this place is amazing. The rich have all the political power, so this makes sense. You'd think the working class has political power but their opinions are controlled by the wealthy. So for the people running America, there's nothing to fix. The system is designed to produce…

You missed one thing about the poor: they are useful as slaves--which is still legal in America. So America spends billions, maybe trillions over the last four to five decades to incarcerate people for anything, especially normal everyday human endeavors so they can be enslaved, provide free labor, and provide a base for others to profit off their pain. Most of these people are, of course, people of color, whom Ameri…

I wholeheartedly agree.

I read a book last year I think you would enjoy. The Culture of Make Believe by Derek Jensen. If you've got time I highly recommend it.

Re: San Jose: New law would make city first to allow “tiny homes” for homeless

#80
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've found that America makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a country run by rich people, with a whole lot of workers. For the rich, this place is amazing. The rich have all the political power, so this makes sense. You'd think the working class has political power but their opinions are controlled by the wealthy. So for the people running America, there's nothing to fix. The system is designed to produce…

> I've found that America makes a lot more sense when you think of it as a country run by rich people, with a whole lot of workers. For the rich, this place is amazing. That's an excellent insight, and it agrees with my experience. When I lived there I was earning minimum wage, as were all my (local) friends and I was not impressed. Friends who needed surgery could not afford it, could not afford car insurance, etc.…

>It blows my mind that masses have not voted to do something about this to better their lot.

The media is very powerful here.

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