IRC v3 • Hacker News Board

Re: IRC v3

#21

Post by jbk » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 2:50 PM UTC

nycatelos wrote: post #18

jbk wrote: post #9

That's a great idea. Maybe also backport some features of Slack, like edition of messages (with a flag marking it as edited), or a common way to have plugins/extensions, or tagging links as images.

How on earth do you expert messaging editing to work. Are irc clients supposed to magically redraw the buffer and edit logs??! You can already tell if a link is an image, because they're posted a link to an image..... Some irc clients already inline images posted....

> Are irc clients supposed to magically redraw the buffer and edit logs??!

Who speaks about magic?

Just send a message with the original ID and make the difference. Mark it in the UI, and redisplay it.

Re: IRC v3

#22

Post by jbk » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 2:52 PM UTC

daenney wrote: post #17

jbk wrote: post #9

That's a great idea. Maybe also backport some features of Slack, like edition of messages (with a flag marking it as edited), or a common way to have plugins/extensions, or tagging links as images.

> like edition of messages (with a flag marking it as edited) This works on Slack but only with their client. Use one of the bridges and you have no clue what's going on and they have a centralised system for this. Syncing that somehow across all servers in an IRC network, across netsplits and everything, is far from simple. You'd also need to do this retroactively somehow if a client received a message, disconnects,…

> Syncing that somehow across all servers in an IRC network, across netsplits and everything, is far from simple.

Yes, it's not simple. But it's not impossible to do. And yes, it might not work in 100% of cases, after netsplits, but so what?

Re: IRC v3

#23

Post by tarancato » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 2:57 PM UTC

I don't feel like typing much because it's nap time but IRCv3 is an almost closed group of friends, mostly znc core developers, who have decided they can choose what the future of IRC looks like.

They have put lots of pressure on and harassed other developers of clients and networks, sending them patches and infiltrating their devs if necessary, so their ideas are actually implemented.

If you complain about those ideas and specs, they'll tell you to refer to their github issue tracker, but they mostly ignore those who are not part of that core group I mentioned.

Re: IRC v3

#24

Post by sotojuan » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:03 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #2

I am a long time IRC user (irssi is my 'daily driver'), but I'm pretty sure IRCv3 is called "Slack".

I don't get this. Slack was made for small to medium teams. There's so many Slack chats are that unbearably slow (or expensive) because it can't handle that many users.

Also, I have to get invited, check my email, sign up, and skip the tutorial every time?

Re: IRC v3

#25

Post by daenney » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:04 PM UTC

jbk wrote: post #22

daenney wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> like edition of messages (with a flag marking it as edited) This works on Slack but only with their client. Use one of the bridges and you have no clue what's going on and they have a centralised system for this. Syncing that somehow across all servers in an IRC network, across netsplits and everything, is far from simple. You'd also need to do this retroactively somehow if a client received a message, disconnects,…

> Syncing that somehow across all servers in an IRC network, across netsplits and everything, is far from simple. Yes, it's not simple. But it's not impossible to do. And yes, it might not work in 100% of cases, after netsplits, but so what?

That matters a lot. Inconsistent history is a problem and leads to all kinds of communication issues and misunderstandings.

You said you agreed on A

No I edited it later to say that I meant I was in favour of B

Oh, I never saw that edit...

Re: IRC v3

#26

Post by prawnsalad » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

tarancato wrote: post #23

I don't feel like typing much because it's nap time but IRCv3 is an almost closed group of friends, mostly znc core developers, who have decided they can choose what the future of IRC looks like. They have put lots of pressure on and harassed other developers of clients and networks, sending them patches and infiltrating their devs if necessary, so their ideas are actually implemented. If you complain about those ide…

While a number of people in the group are friends, I definitely wouldn't call it a closed group of friends. These are people that have been developing different IRC projects for many years, all discussing the protocol and making sure clients + servers actually work together. Friendships will come from this over years.

A lot of the core group all work on different competing projects, servers and clients, and do frequently discuss any proposal made by anyone if it makes sense.

Re: IRC v3

#27

Post by donatj » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:06 PM UTC

tarancato wrote: post #23

I don't feel like typing much because it's nap time but IRCv3 is an almost closed group of friends, mostly znc core developers, who have decided they can choose what the future of IRC looks like. They have put lots of pressure on and harassed other developers of clients and networks, sending them patches and infiltrating their devs if necessary, so their ideas are actually implemented. If you complain about those ide…

I have seen exactly this happening on an IRC library I use for a bot.

Re: IRC v3

#28

Post by hueving » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

JshWright wrote: post #2

I am a long time IRC user (irssi is my 'daily driver'), but I'm pretty sure IRCv3 is called "Slack".

It's sad to me that open source projects so quickly reach for proprietary workflow tools like github and slack. There was a time when you would be laughed out of the room for suggesting that open source developers hinge a project on proprietary stuff.

Even though open source is "cool" now, I can't help but feel it's mostly people working for companies that just want to export their technical debt for free and use open source as a marketing tool.

Re: IRC v3

#29

Post by paradite » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:08 PM UTC

Looking at homepages of various IRC clients, I feel like I am back to 5 years ago when jQuery UI is still a thing: http://ircv3.net/software/clients.html

Equally out-of-date are the screenshots of the clients on the homepages. I don't think I will ever see an IRC desktop or web client that has decent UI according to today's standard. Then again probably I am too young to be their target audience.

Edit: Okay there are some IRC clients that actually look good, such as Riot, but not on the list of IRCv3 client.

Re: IRC v3

#30

Post by qwertyuiop924 » Sun, Oct 09, 2016, 3:10 PM UTC

I'm not sure if this is the best approach. Matrix might be a better way to go, at least for some things. If you really want persistent history and persistent identity, I'm not sure why you bother with IRC at this point: both will always be second class there. Try XMPP, Matrix, Psyc, or whatever. Just so long as you can convince your friends to use it...